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Author Topic: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In  (Read 5515 times)

Warmon

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Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« on: August 16, 2006, 06:09:52 AM »
I have read that higher RG balls with modest differentials are what works best for down & in bowlers and those with less axis rotation. Do you agree with that? I can see where if the ball is rolling very quickly off hand, you'd want a ball that stores more energy for later down the lane. What drillings work best for these same type bowlers? Would you take a higher RG ball and put a high RG drilling on it? or something else?
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azguy

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2006, 04:32:18 PM »
I'm more down and in that opening up the lanes. I have a Hawg Wild and do better with higher RG balls ( 2.50-2.60). I have had some others, drilled a bit differently, yes, but just don't get what I do from the H/W. I usually look for a RG around 2.50-2.55, when I look ofr a ball for myself. I also seem to get a better reaction from a 60-70 degree drill than others.

I can't say what would be best for you without seeing you throw, but this seems to work best for me. Hope this has helped in some way.
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Warmon

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2006, 07:24:02 PM »
azguy, where do you typically put your pin? - above or below your fingers? Above would be high rg / contol with CG kicked right. Below would be med rg / control. As I progress, I find I'm much more accurate and consitent with a straighter path and a small hook. I am speed dominant by nature with about 25-30 degree axis rotation and have a high track. I can throw a pretty good medium hook with more rotation, but controlling it for me is difficult and inconsistent without a wrist support.
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azguy

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2006, 08:40:06 PM »
I like to 'play around' with the pins. My fav usually ends up  ( if above fingers were 12 on a clock ) some where about 1 to 2 o clock. I don't like the length of true above fingers and below has clipped the thumb a couple times but not to many. I find, for me, the 2 maybe 3 ( pin to right of ring ) usually works the best. I'll try to kick GC 1/2 inch right of  line, but not always.

Sounds strange and before I started drilling myself, I'd drive my old driller nuts. I pay a lot of attention to what cover the ball has. What the grit I plan to use and knowing I usually see more med to med/heavy, I plan the drill to the cover so no two balls are exactally the same. Many might say this against all common thoughts, but it works for me and as I say,. I'll plan the drill with the cover I'll be using.

Point in fact, I will drill up a Black Widow, but I have to study more on the cover, read others reactions, how well does that cover seem to accept changes, etc. I played areound with a Doom, read everything chitown wrote about his covers/reactions and decided I needed a 5X4 1/2 with the pin/fingers at least 3/4 inch, but after seeing and reading others with the Black Widow, throwing a friends, well the Doom is for sale and the Widow is setting on the jig with two different drills laid out.

Needless to say, I don't do anything fast, my customers know that and we talk for at least an hour before I lay out a drill for them. I want them, as I do, to know what the ball will do ( hopefully ! ) and be sure that's what they want before I drill it.

With few exceptions, when I roll the ball, I know just where it SHOULD go and what it SHOULD do. Taking in account I'll throw a gutter every now and then just because I'm stupid and do something I know I shouldn't do, but that's my problem.

Long, but maybe this explains what I do and why. I think if more people studied more about a ball, they wouldn't sell it after 2-10 games because it didn't do what they wanted it to do, JMO.
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northface28

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 09:49:25 PM »
CG negative always was good for me when playing down and in, ball would rev up and lay off in the back.
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azguy

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 09:52:18 PM »
northface28, this is my point, neg weight never works for me, all that well, but if it works fopr you, more power to you.

I don't think there's one way to drill or do things, we are all different and what may work for one, might not for the other.

Glad it works for you.
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northface28

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2006, 09:54:00 PM »
Good point, we all throw it different so cg negative may or may not work for all. Just offering up ideas.
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azguy

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2006, 09:59:24 PM »
I understand, and in no way, meaning any offense, just pointing out, what works for one, may or may not for another, you and I are examples of that.

I think if more folks asked questions, read more, they'd decide for themselves on a ball/drill and be happier with the out come, at least I think they would.

Happy Bowling !
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
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Warmon

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 07:27:54 PM »
I have read, studied, pondered, observed and experimented. My questions are more about theory, rather than actual specifics on where to put things. Here's what I believe to be true:

High rev players need balls, drillings and/or coverstock manipulation that promote skid to save energy for later. That usually means high RG in some form or another. Most high rev players have pins above the fingers. Some are arcy and some are forward roll - ie CG / MB farther or closer to PAP than pin to PAP. Forward roll works better for carry down and arc works better for eveness.

Then you have the whole typical beginner thing; to which most all ball manufacturer's cater to with entry level reactives. Your basic high RG ball. But why? Because most entry level bowlers have the same problem high revers do; ball tends to burn up most of its energy before it gets there. Ball speed is a huge factor and inability to put on much axis rotation.

So what does this have to do with playing down and in or taking a straighter path on purpose? Different circumstances, but same set of problems. The ball goes into forward roll almost immediately and is rapidly burning energy along the way. Pin too high and the ball goes too long. Pin too low and ball breaks too early. Method of combat: control your speed and manipulate coverstocks. Of course; the great thing about down and in is that it takes some lane changes and conditions out of play.

Although I have not tried it yet, I think the ideal layout for me is in pin in the ring finger hole itself. My next ball will definitely have it. The next question will be; just how stupid is it to induce forward roll by kicking CG right. Perhaps kicking CG left is the way to go. Ahh - the experiment continues...and more research needs to be done.


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DON DRAPER

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 08:40:09 PM »
a true down and in line is my "a" game and has been for over 10 years. i've never chosen equipment based upon it's ability for a certain line. my arsenal is always set up with balls for various amounts of oil on the lane. my pin positions are almost always right next to the ring finger. the main difference in the balls reaction is the coverstock preparation made to these balls. dull ones for oily lanes, smooth sanded ones for oily to medium lanes, and polished ones for medium to drier lanes. i use these same balls if i have to move left and swing the ball or if i have to move even farther right to point the ball.
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Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 08:46:30 PM »
I've found the best down and in equipment is older stuff...and some of the weaker stuff of today.  Tropical Storm worked well on down and in...stuff like that....just seems most stuff today is too strong.
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MegaMav

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 08:46:52 PM »
quote:
just how stupid is it to induce forward roll by kicking CG right.


just as dumb as kicking the CG left, CG has minimal bearing on reaction.
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Ric Clint

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 11:54:59 PM »
Good topic!
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Warmon

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 09:06:16 AM »
This is kinda directed at what MegaMav had to say about CG location meaning little or nothing. I believe it means a great deal. If one studies all these drill sheets, in many cases these layouts where pin is very close to RF and CG/MB kicked right, they tell you to locate balance hole on VAL targeting 1/2oz negative side weight. So kicking CG left of center of grip can accomplish the same thing - negative side weight without a balance hole. Negative side weight makes the ball want to hook earlier, but less. Positive side weight induces more hook, but later. With down and in, the ball is already in a strong forward roll; you're already fighting length and probably would not want to induce more...particulary on a high RG ball or whenever the bowler is speed dominant. So in essence, with moving the CG around, you're attempting to gain control of the break point while keeping the ball legal.

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MegaMav

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Re: Best Balls & Drillings for Down & In
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2006, 10:46:14 AM »
k, think about it this way.

do you think the weight hole you mentioned is responsible for the change in reaction?

maybe this video will change your mind.

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/uploads/vids/CG_demo_5-05.wmv
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