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Author Topic: Brain farting...need help figuring this out  (Read 4857 times)

jmc1972

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Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« on: May 18, 2017, 10:11:33 AM »
I feel a little dumb for posting this but I honestly can't seem to figure it out mentally. My coach suggests I have my shy-Road punched 3" Pin to Pan (no problem here) and CG next to the first oil track on the right. I'm trying to picture this and for some reason i can't. Is this a stacked type of layout?  Is it pin Up, down? Is it in the middle of the fingered, on the left side or right side. The best I can come up with I that this is a pin Up wig pin to the right which is no problem. I'm a high track player and can't picture the cg location.

I'll most likely figure it out soon after I post this and clear my brain.
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ITZPS

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 10:16:55 AM »
It's like a super label drill.  3" pin is going to put it about an inch or so directly right of your ring finger if you have a normal track, and the cg would be to the left of your grip centerline to get it close to the track.  CG is going to be just to the right of your first flare ring.  Really odd layout. 
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Jesse James

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 11:57:39 AM »
Did he give you a reason for requesting this layout?

I've had two pieces laid out similarly, and both pieces were very mellow. They gave me very easy length, kind of a slurve, with a laid-back hit on the backend.

Since, I'm rev-dominant, these pieces were useful to me on light oil conditions, even when the nature of the ball was to be stronger.
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charlest

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 01:02:42 PM »
Quote from: Jesse James on May 18, 2017, 11:57:39 AM
Did he give you a reason for requesting this layout?

I've had two pieces laid out similarly, and both pieces were very mellow. They gave me very easy length, kind of a slurve, with a laid-back hit on the backend.

Since, I'm rev-dominant, these pieces were useful to me on light oil conditions, even when the nature of the ball was to be stronger.

Although technically movement of the CG is supposed to have no effect on ball reaction, when you're rev dominant, like you and I, there can be an effect. As you noticed, moving the CG towards the negative or track side, will reduce slightly the overall sharpness of the backend. If a bowler tends towards even speed/rev rate match up or speed dominant, he will tend not see this effect.
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Channelsurfer

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 05:13:52 PM »
CG placement means zero.  Pin to pap distance and val angle is all you need to be concerned with on a symmetrical ball.
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BowlingforSoup

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 05:28:08 PM »
Sounds like label leverage to me.Instead of pin to pap being 3 3/8 its 3.Look at drilling number 1 on the Ebonite drill sheet.Its says drilling 1 is for Medium to heavy oil with a hooking track, fresher backends, great for slower ball speeds and minimal axis rotation.
http://www.cheapbowlingballs.com/Assets/Balls/Ebonite/symmetric_core_drill.pdf
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charlest

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 06:35:21 PM »
Quote from: Channelsurfer on May 18, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
CG placement means zero.  Pin to pap distance and val angle is all you need to be concerned with on a symmetrical ball.

If you are matched or speed dominant.
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Channelsurfer

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 07:59:12 PM »
Quote from: charlest on May 18, 2017, 06:35:21 PM
Quote from: Channelsurfer on May 18, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
CG placement means zero.  Pin to pap distance and val angle is all you need to be concerned with on a symmetrical ball.

If you are matched or speed dominant.

CG placement makes no difference in ball reaction other than balance hole placement.  It doesn't matter if you place it close to the track or close to the val pin distance and val angle are what's going to determine ball reaction on a sym..... has nothing to do with being matched or speed dominant on a symmetrical ball.
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Speeddemon

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 11:05:37 PM »
Or pin distance and val angle are what's going to determine CGs position  ;)
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charlest

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 12:17:39 AM »
Quote from: Channelsurfer on May 18, 2017, 07:59:12 PM
Quote from: charlest on May 18, 2017, 06:35:21 PM
Quote from: Channelsurfer on May 18, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
CG placement means zero.  Pin to pap distance and val angle is all you need to be concerned with on a symmetrical ball.

If you are matched or speed dominant.

CG placement makes no difference in ball reaction other than balance hole placement.  It doesn't matter if you place it close to the track or close to the val pin distance and val angle are what's going to determine ball reaction on a sym..... has nothing to do with being matched or speed dominant on a symmetrical ball.

My experience and that of others, like Jesse James, shows otherwise. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.
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Channelsurfer

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 06:27:44 AM »
On a sym the psa ends up being the thumb so cg placement only determines balance hole location if one is desired.  You can manipulate the psa slightly with a balance hole.  I guess we can agree to disagree.......I am just trying to give you actual facts not opinions on what it does.  Don't believe me.......drill 2 balls with the same pin location and 2 different cg locations (no balance hole in either) and spin them up on a determinator and see for yourself.   
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 06:40:04 AM by Channelsurfer »
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Channelsurfer

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 06:30:54 AM »
Quote from: Speeddemon on May 18, 2017, 11:05:37 PM
Or pin distance and val angle are what's going to determine CGs position  ;)

Drill angle and pin distance (from cg) determines cg position
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 06:44:06 AM by Channelsurfer »
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Speeddemon

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Re: Brain farting...need help figuring this out
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 08:13:20 AM »
What I tried to say is you both agree that the placement of the cg (heaviest spot on the ball) matters, but you have a different way to get to it.  Hope this make sence.
Have a great weekend   :D
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