Author Topic: Thumb positive weight hole (Read 3109 times)

lefty50 · « **on:** October 10, 2007, 10:44:45 AM »

I just got a new Resurgence drilled two days ago. It's a low pin drill with about 1/2 oz thumb weight and 1/4 side, right where I wanted it for my low rev, high rotation style. The ball is not bad... However, it reacts as I was afraid of, it turns a bit early, but tends to enter weakly. I am relatively confident it's not burning up. It's reacting as I was told previously, increased thumb tends to turn earlier and more mellow.

Here's the problem. My driller doesn't believe in weight holes and won't put one in. Unreal... Yes, I'm getting a new driller, but in general have a qwuestion.

Is it true that a thumb positive weight hole approx 2&1/4 down from the PAP on the VAL (I believe that places it in the thumb positive quadrant) would give it a bit more snap in the backend?

Yes, I've seen the Brunsnick video, although I only put some credence in it. The weight differences were quite exaggerated compared to those allowed, thereby magnifying the effect.

Still, I think the weight hole would be a step in the right direction...
Thoughts?
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the pooh · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:58:11 PM »

You will get a slight bit more hook,but it probably won't be at the back of the lane. The pin height and distance have more effect than a weight hole on the shape and length of the break.In the future,when you want a later,sharper break,put the pin higher.

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the pooh

qstick777 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:30:55 PM »

I ran across this:

quote:

a balance hole 6 inches from the center of span in the thumb/positive quadrant. This is the area of the ball located in a 4:30 direction (southeast) from the center of the span (lefthanders would be in a 7:30 direction, or southwest). Placing a balance hole here allows the balance hole to join forces with the thumbhole to create a huge flat spot on the core. This flat spot maximizes flare potential (it is located roughly 6-7 inches from the pin) and also creates a strong mass bias. This mass bias causes the ball to lose energy at a faster rate, creating a quicker transition from side roll to end-over-end roll. Heavier oil patterns, faster ball speeds, and higher amounts of axis rotation and tilt need a ball reaction that loses side rotation faster. Conversely, lighter oil patterns and slower ball speeds will find that this position of the balance hole will cause the ball to lose energy prematurely, causing the ball to "hook out" before it hits the pins. This hook-out results in maximum deflection and insufficient hitting power.

also keep in mind that with only 1/4 oz of side, a weight hole is going to take you into negative side weight.
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kleptic · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2007, 03:05:58 AM »

a weight hole will always make a ball roll earlier, regardless of location. positions away from the pap increase flare the most.

it sounds like thats really opposite of what you are trying to accomplish in the backend.

that ball is 1000 abralon out of the box?

if thats true and you want backend your best bet is to go with a higher grit abralon or some polish

Raven829 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:01:24 AM »

quote:
a weight hole will always make a ball roll earlier, regardless of location. positions away from the pap increase flare the most.

Oh really?
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"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
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charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2007, 06:32:46 AM »

quote:
quote:
a weight hole will always make a ball roll earlier, regardless of location. positions away from the pap increase flare the most.

Oh really?
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"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool

no, not really.

The theory, for higher flaring balls, is, AFAIHL:
Weight holes at or beyond (2" - 3") the PAP and 2.5" - 3" below the PAP will add to the pin position's flare, making the ball flare earlier and more.
Weight holes above the PAP or 2" inside the PAP will reduce the flare and make the ball hook later.
Weight holes need to be on the large size, approx. 1" in diameter and approx. 2.5" - 3" deep, to be sure of affecting the core's dynamics/physical shape.
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charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2007, 06:41:03 AM »

quote:
... However, it reacts as I was afraid of, it turns a bit early, but tends to enter weakly. I am relatively confident it's not burning up.

Well, it's not "burning up" in the sense that it's losing all its energy in the midlane, but it is "burning up" in the sense it's losing some of its energy. Otherwise it wouldn't be hitting weakly.

quote:

It's reacting as I was told previously, increased thumb tends to turn earlier and more mellow.
[/quote}

While a lot of factors are invovled, I very seriously doubt if you are seeing the effect of the that little thumb weight. Most PBA players can't see that. I think the ball may jst be slightly stronger than you need for your release and the current lane conditions.

quote:

Here's the problem. My driller doesn't believe in weight holes and won't put one in. Unreal... Yes, I'm getting a new driller, but in general have a qwuestion.

Sound like a good idea. "doesn't believe in weightholes"? In 1975, they "believed" in weight holes. It's fact; not a matter of belief!

quote:
]
Is it true that a thumb positive weight hole approx 2&1/4 down from the PAP on the VAL (I believe that places it in the thumb positive quadrant) would give it a bit more snap in the backend?

See my reply above. No, that weigh thole will add flare and earlier, in general, depending on the size.

Quote

Still, I think the weight hole would be a step in the right direction...
Thoughts?
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature...

Before adding a weight hole, I'd try a surface change. The stock Resurgence is 1000 grit matte/dull. Try taking it to 1500 grit or adding a very light amount of polish to help it retain energy better. You can always return it to 1000 grit and esperiemtn with the effects of a weight hole later. A weight hole is such a permanent thing and surfaces can be changed and modified many times.

Good luck.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Worrying is like rocking in a rocking chair: it gives you something to do, but doesn't get you anywhere!"

lefty50 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2007, 07:49:41 AM »

Thanks to all for the replies. Charlest, I think you're right. I can try both a "delaying tactic" by raising the grit, and then see the comparative effects of the weight hole if needed. Sounds like a plan. I might evven use this opportunity to start a new thread in 2 weeks after trying both and see what develops.
Thanks to all ...
L50
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Greg T · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2007, 08:11:45 AM »

a weightole on your positive axis point will cause the ball to roll up sooner

a weighthole between your positive axis point and your grip will remove top and side weights allowing the ball to react smoother and will flare less

a weighthole past your positive axis point will increase backend reaction and length caused by more flare

Just as you could pitch a thumbhole, so could the weighthole be pitched.

Pitching the weighthole away from the palm preserved more top weight in the ball thus enhancing the backend and the hit of the ball.

Pitching the hole towards the palm caused the ball to lose more topweight and thus making a smoother reaction.

Pitching towards the thumb will cause more length and a sharper backend reaction. Pitching towards the fingers will have an opposite effect.

The current way of thinking if you are strictly worried about getting the ball back within the legal ABC limits is to place the weighthole at the intersection of a line drawn from the grip center, through the CG to the vertical axis line. A hole placed here will stand a 95% chance of getting the ball back within the limits.

That help???
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kleptic · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2007, 09:13:38 AM »

good to know charlest, revolutions 2 didnt cover weight hole positions between pap and grip. I didnt know about those.

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2007, 12:58:33 PM »

AFAIHL stands for "as far as I have learned". I didn't make it up; got it from one of Mo Pinel's lessons. All knowledge like this just gets passed around and around, and with any luck, it stays as it is and does not get changed.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Worrying is like rocking in a rocking chair: it gives you something to do, but doesn't get you anywhere!"

Author Topic: Thumb positive weight hole (Read 3109 times)

lefty50

Thumb positive weight hole

the pooh

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

qstick777

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

kleptic

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

Raven829

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

charlest

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

charlest

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

lefty50

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

Greg T

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

kleptic

Re: Thumb positive weight hole

charlest

Re: Thumb positive weight hole