Author Topic: Collier, offset thumb, etc (Read 16579 times)

Polish_Hammer · « **on:** August 04, 2011, 11:12:07 PM »

So I have been having problems staying to the inside of the ball and keeping my elbow flying around more so than ever. I went to my local ball driller and said I think I want to dry a dropped ring finger or something to get a little more palm on the ball and get the ball more inside my hand and also my lack of flexibility in my hand. He reccomended turning the ring finger a liitle and offsetting the thumb to "give the feel of a dropped ring finger" with the same span. So I have gone from 1/8 forward and 1/8 under on my thumb to 1/32 reverse and no lateral. I will be trying it out this weekend and I am always open to trying new thinks especcially while having problems. My fears would be that even a little reverse will have me squeezing and or putting strain on my tendons. Not sure if too many people use this type of grip other than Jeff Carter

jodyk24 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2011, 03:22:35 PM »

The Collier grip and others have been around for quite a while, I remember the drill was around in the 1970's and 1980's. The trend now seems to be bowlers are trying more forward pitch and shorter spans. Each bowler is different and what works for one won't work for others due to flexibility in their thumb and fingers. I know a bowler who purchased a ball from Jeff Carter. His hand specs matched up with Jeff's, but he could not get the ball to come off of his hand. There are several bowlers that use the Collier grip at some time in their bowling career. Norm Duke has used a form of the Collier grip in the past and he may still use it. Click on the link below and scroll down to PBA Tech talk, Norm Duke and look at his specs that he has used in the past. Going from forward pitch to reverse pitch on the thumb, you need to pay attention to the finger pitch and span if you are concerned about tendon strain. A good ball driller knows what to look for. I hope this helps you out some.

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazar=10

jodyk24

lefty50 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2011, 03:37:10 PM »

I would love to hear your feedback after trying this out. I have the exact same problem you do and was also thinking of trying an offset thumb. Between having a badly crooked ring finger from years of cracking my knuckles and having a lot of trouble staying inside the ball, I just do not feel like the ball is sufficiently in my palm. However, after listening to the so-called experts give me about 20 responses of" there is no such thing as an offset thumb", I moved on to something else. I wish now that I had not. Please post your thoughts after giving this a try, and good luck.

Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...

dougb · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2011, 08:52:47 PM »

I use this grip and it gives me a great deal of comfort and a smoother release. Be warned that every time this subject comes up it turns into a debate about whether there really is such a thing as an offset thumb.

The Bowling Pariah · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2011, 10:23:13 PM »

Whether the offset thumb actually exists or not, seems to be more a question of semantics than it is a question on reality. SOMETHING obviously does exist.

The way my drillings are measured off, it WOULD be an "offset" thumb, due to the grip center line being drawn perpindicular to the finger span line, then having to measure 3/8 inch laterally from that along my thumb span line to find the top center of my thumbhole. This works perfectly for me every time.

There is a drilling technique called CLT, or Center Line Transfer/Transposition, in which the thumb is "centered", then the finger holes are drilled at differing distances from that, giving the visual effect that the finger holes are the ones that are "offset".

Either style seems to be effective in producing holes in the proper geometry, with the difference being the reference point from which pitches are measured, which CAN make a difference.

My way works for me, and I already know what pitches work with this technique for me, so I stay with it for that reason.

JohnP · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2011, 09:38:43 AM »

Offsetting the thumb changes the spans and pitches. These changes can then be measured and duplicated using a standard T grip, but the result will not be the same as the grip determined by standard fitting procedures. -- JohnP

Polish_Hammer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2011, 01:01:19 PM »

Well, I threw my first five games with the new grip. Noticed a few things. It is definitely easier to stay behind the ball and release up the back. My hand felt a little better weight distribution on the fingers and slightly more hand surface on the ball but not where I felt like I was palming the ball.

I tried several different hand positions: Fingers spread, pinky in, pinky in and tucked. The only hand position I had trouble with was when I cocked the wrist and tried to get around the wall with more side roll and axis tilt. That could be me or I might need to add a little lateral pitch away in the thumb. I'll have my nall driller check it out monday and maybe tweak that.

lefty50 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2011, 02:59:27 PM »

Hammer, did you like it enough to decide it's a change your going to make permanently?

Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...

Polish_Hammer · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2011, 03:36:31 PM »

Yup I'm going to go with this for a while. might make a slight tweak, but for me I'm able to keep my elbow from flying out and that has been my biggest problem

lefty50 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2011, 06:17:34 PM »

That's good to hear. I'm going to give it a try also. I have a fairly new driller who's excellent, but seemed reluctant to do this whewn I spoke to him previously. Although he is probably already familiar with this, any references to documentation that would help me learn more when I discuss it with him would be appreciated.

Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...

Polish_Hammer · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2011, 08:06:00 AM »

If you go to Jeff Carter's website he has his layout documented, which is close to what I have now although he is slightly forward pitch

lefty50 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2011, 09:49:03 AM »

Thanks, I will.

Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...

JustRico · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2011, 05:17:54 PM »

You changed the thumb pitch in such a way that it made it easier to stay, in your words, behind the ball better.

When you use palm or under (towards the palm) and forward in the pitch makes your thumb stay in the ball longer through the rotation, thus making you feel as if your elbow is flying around the ball or your hand is coming over the top of the ball....you have to rotate your hand to a point so the angle of the thumb hole allows the thumb to release not the angle being such that the thumb releases when it wants to. By adjusting the angle (assuming the span is correct) it is easier for you to release the ball at a more comfortable position.

And trust me....you can duplicate any so-called offest with a T grip....it is a round object. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Polish_Hammer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2011, 06:38:27 AM »

I love people who want to talk semantics. "There is no such thing as an offset thumb." " it's not called right pitch its called under pitch." Jeff Carter, myself, and numerous ball drillers are truely without a clue. People call it "an offset thumb" because that 's what it looks like when you see it, Nobody said you can't measure off a t-grip.

JustRico · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2011, 06:42:45 AM »

So you read nothing else other than I am preaching symantics.....REALLY? And I never attacked you or whoever the else you would like to say are good ball drillers. I stated that you changed the angle of the thumb hole more than anything else, drastically I might add...and the ball came off your hand...WOW NO WAY

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Author Topic: Collier, offset thumb, etc (Read 16579 times)

Polish_Hammer

Collier, offset thumb, etc

jodyk24

Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc

lefty50

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dougb

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The Bowling Pariah

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JohnP

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Polish_Hammer

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lefty50

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Polish_Hammer

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lefty50

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Polish_Hammer

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lefty50

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JustRico

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Polish_Hammer

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JustRico

Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc