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Author Topic: Collier, offset thumb, etc  (Read 16580 times)

Polish_Hammer

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Collier, offset thumb, etc
« on: August 04, 2011, 11:12:07 PM »
So I have been having problems staying to the inside of the ball and keeping my elbow flying around more so than ever.  I went to my local ball driller and said I think I want to dry a dropped ring finger or something to get a little more palm on the ball and get the ball more inside my hand and also my lack of flexibility in my hand. He reccomended turning the ring finger a liitle and offsetting the thumb to "give the feel of a dropped ring finger" with the same span. So I have gone from 1/8 forward and 1/8 under on my thumb to 1/32 reverse and no lateral.  I will be trying it out this weekend and I am always open to trying new thinks especcially while having problems.  My fears would be that even a little reverse will have me squeezing and or putting strain on my tendons.  Not sure if too many people use this type of grip other than Jeff Carter


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JustRico

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2011, 07:00:14 AM »
And for the record it's reality...

 

For a while in the late 80's and early 90's I used an offset and realized I did it due to the fact that it was easy to lay out....

 

I'm not attacking you or anyone else that uses something that works, I stated you can measure however you want...you can call it whatever you want...you want to talk about this person or that person using it....how great of ball drillers you are or anyone else....I got a pretty good resume when it comes to drilling BTW....I have drilled a few balls and I can back up what I write. You want to call it semantics...I call it reality. It's a round object, plain & simple. It's an angle not a pitch....anything else?


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Juggernaut

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2011, 10:40:10 PM »
Here is a picture of my ball:


 

 This may be only an optical illusion, but to me it looks like it is offset to the left of center, and that is the way it was achieved. We put the T grip line on it, marked the thumb span line, then moved 3/8inch left of center.
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JohnP

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 08:51:57 AM »
There is no optical illusion, the thumb is offset.  What has happened is:  the ring finger span has lengthened and the middle finger span has shortened, both slightly; the pitches on all three holes have changed because they now should be measured on a line from the center of the bridge to the center of the thumb hole.  If this works for you, great, but your grip is no longer the same as specified by standard fitting guidelines (which, I suppose, was your objective anyway).  Also, your layout is no longer the same since the grip center has shifted to the left.  --  JohnP

 

 


 
Edited by JohnP on 8/11/2011 at 8:51 AM
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Juggernaut

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 10:27:49 AM »
JP,

 I understand what you'e saying, and I agree. In an earlier post, I think it was said that the only difference between the method I am using and the CLT method is the point of reference from which the pitches should be measured, and that point would change slightly using one method vs the other.

 

 Yes, my span is an extended ring finger span, which was tried by merely moving the ring finger up 1/8in on a ball, but it didn't "feel" right, that was when the driller suggested using this "Collier" method to achieve the correct span. Now, even though it actually MEASURES out the same as the simply extended ring finger, this method makes it "feel" correct.

 

 Whatever it is about the three dimensional geometrics of holes on the surface of the ball, and their positions leading to their eventual drilling angles, it seems one method makes it "feel" correct and the other does not. This leads me to believe that, while my understanding does not let me explain it fully, there IS some difference between simply extending a finger hole or moving the thumbhole to achieve the desired grip specs.

 

 I'm not trying to start another argument or make any claims. All I'm saying is, I've tried all three methods, and all three had a different "feel" to them, so there IS some difference. What that difference is, I cannot quantify.
 



JohnP wrote on 8/11/2011 8:51 AM:
There is no optical illusion, the thumb is offset.  What has happened is:  the ring finger span has lengthened and the middle finger span has shortened, both slightly; the pitches on all three holes have changed because they now should be measured on a line from the center of the bridge to the center of the thumb hole.  If this works for you, great, but your grip is no longer the same as specified by standard fitting guidelines (which, I suppose, was your objective anyway).  Also, your layout is no longer the same since the grip center has shifted to the left.  --  JohnP


 


 



 

Edited by JohnP on 8/11/2011 at 8:51 AM
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T C 300

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2011, 12:37:50 AM »
i got a ball from a member on here couple yrs back... it was one that belonged to carter.. had the grip he used around the 07 season (ball is from 07).
it fit my hand pretty good, had to get used to a "different feel"... had 3 300's with it, few 760's + and 23 strikes in a row. for me, everything had to be inline(timing etc etc) for me to score with that ball. if i was throwing it bad i would bowl REALLY bad!   there was no in between with it..
 
i also know my rev rate went up..??? i already turn the ball enough but you could deff tell there was more revs... 


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bullred

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2011, 01:33:03 AM »
tc300.....you must be the answer to the THB wet dream.  3 300's and multiple 300's.  you must be the "Tush Hog" of your THS league.   Do the girls swoon when you pass by?????


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bullred

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2011, 01:41:35 AM »
For many years I have been drilling a layout that probably qualifies as an "offset" drill.  All it is, is laying out the finger pitches to line up with the arm.  Generally the pitches of the fingers line up with with a point about 1" right(RH) of the thumb centerline.  Drill the middle finger at zero(on a centerline from the center of middle finger to 1" right of thumb center) and line up the ring finger parallel with the middle finger.


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Impending Doom

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 02:13:48 PM »
Personally, I feel that it has to do with if you have a finicky hand or not. Some people do not. I do. I know some things for a fact with my hand. When my hand lays on the ball with just my thumb in, my fingers centerline is not the same as the actual centerline. 
 
Now, if I twist my hand and make it line up, my thumb doesn't lay in the hole correctly. In the direction that it is pushing, it could make me come around the ball early, or pop my elbow out. So, I choose to go the ergonomic route, and do what my body tells me it should do.
 
What this ends up doing is it allows my fingers to lay in the hole at the angle in which my hand is designed, not what some other person thinks is right. Now, I know the argument of "Yeah yeah, if you just do it off of the regular lines, and just "copy" the pitches off of the ball, it will fit the exact same.", and it's depends on how feel orientated you are. Personally, you will never gain the same feel, even if you "copy the pitches", because there are more forces at work in the hand than just "Do the thumb and fingers fit?"
 
If your thumb pitch was wrong, you would know it, right? What about the angle of your oval in your thumb? Would you feel that as well, or would you just deal with it, knowing that something could be changed in which would make you release the ball cleaner without effort?
 
This is a "You say tomato, I say tomahto" conversation, but it works for people that can feel it. Those of you that can't feel it, God bless ya. 


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Polish_Hammer

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Re: Collier, offset thumb, etc
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2011, 10:42:07 AM »
Well put
ID

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