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Author Topic: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes  (Read 11315 times)

LuckyLefty

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Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« on: January 14, 2016, 11:34:24 PM »
I find my pin ups going long and really snap and my pin unders hook quite early and a lot.

I've been considering drilling out the pin with my ring finger in one of my new balls around the house but have been somewhat hesitant after trying that with a ball in the past a blur Hybrid.

The Blur Hybrid is  very smooth with not alot of recovery.  However I had another ball in that series and it was very smooth drilled pin down but much stronger that the pin in fingerhole bridge.

Is there any science on how much reaction pin in Ringfinger hole is versus a similar distance pin above or pin below.

Is considerably more core taken out when the pin is drilled out than when the finger holes are not drilled into the pin?

Thanks,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

charlest

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 12:12:17 AM »
The science is it depends on the pin-PAP distance. period. end of story.

If your measurement of the desired pin distance puts the pin in an overlap of any finger, move it to the center of the finger hole. That way, the ball won't chip or be subject to cracking plus it's a safe position w/r to the warranty. If the edge of the hole cuts across the pin, it is more likely to crack than if you put the pin n the hole.
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HankScorpio

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 05:49:23 AM »
http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf

That's the best scientific explanation offered to the public, at this point.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 08:22:48 AM »
I appreciate the posts both already listed here. 

I have thrown two balls with pin drilled out one that gave a very mild reaction I did not know the ball or core very well, and one that still gave a reaction that I expected with the ring finger drilled in to the pin.  This measurement for me is a quite standard 5 inch pin to PAP.

In rereading the blueprint report I notice a bunch of the drillings, do have the middle finger drilled out 5 3/4 pin to pap and there is a lot of flare illustrated in some of the various configurations.

I guess my concern or question in this area and in another question regarding deep conventional holes into a high end core
http://www.ballreviews.com/drilling-layouts/conventional-grips-and-deep-finger-holes-into-high-end-cores-t310161.0.html#msg2545129.

I note that Mo Pinel with Radical has put quite a bit of effort and research in to developing his scoop cores which when drilled pin above retain more of their core material and differential than other balls.  But as said here by other posters it doesn't matter?  This maybe seems to be in conflict with Mo's efforts in core development? 

My question regarding the pin out leading to a very smooth reaction is really why this would remove more core or reaction, than a pin next to, or pin just under the bridge or just over the bridge?

Thanks for your comments and the reposting of this great attached blueprint report.

Regards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

charlest

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 08:54:47 AM »
You've got to realize that what you do or want to do with a drilling depends on the ball's design, core + cover. It doesn't depend solely on the drilling. If you drill 3 different balls (I emphasize, "different"!) with the same drilling, when thrown by the same bowler, they will or should get 3 different reactions and ball paths.

You're talking as if every ball drilled will get the same reaction when you put the pin in the ring finger hole. Maybe you don't intend that, but that's the way I read it.

Yes, Pinel has designed some of his cores, such that you'll get a very different reaction if you use a pin-up drilling (it is bad to refer to a drilling this way because the part of the reaction determined by the drilling ALWAYS depends on the Pin-PAP distance, the VAL angle and the Drill angle), than if you use a pin down drilling. In those cases (these "special" cores) pin in the ring finger will still be, in the vaguest general terms, half way between what you'd get with a pin-up drilling vs. a pin-down drilling.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

vkowalski1970

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 09:14:29 AM »
Pin to pap and surface dictate length.....Not VAL angle. I agree with Charlest 100% that a balls natural characteristics dictate its basic motion. Drillings do help, but cant change the natural characteristic of the ball.

Heres my pin to pap example....

I own 2 Nomad solids..

50x51/2x70......."pin down"
50x33/4x30......."pin up"

Both at same surface (4000), the "pin down" is way longer and way snappier than the "pin up". This is caused by the stronger pin to pap on the "pin up",the ball is flaring a ton more and that causes it to read and roll earlier and smoother.

When Im looking for a new ball, the first thing I look at is ball motion and its intended use, then where and how I would intend to use it and finally I look at my stats and decide how Im going to drill it.....
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 09:19:51 AM by vkowalski1970 »
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kidlost2000

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 10:12:56 AM »
Before scoop cores Mo spent a lot of time posting about how to manipulate the core with drillings. When he suggests layouts for people and they reply that the pin ends up too close to or partially in the finger his reply was simply move it up or down,  or drill it out. Keep the pin to pap the same.

You can spend a lot of time obsessing over the little things and second guess everything but the results won't change. Ball intent, pin to pap,  and surface is the key.

I've drilled several strike kings on different layouts at box finish and the end results were very similar. The blur solid,  pearl,  hybrid or whatever will be the same. Its a blur
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 12:01:37 PM »
So....What I was saying in my post is I wasn't so sure that the old wives tale of drilling out the pin might NOT have a lot of validity...as far as a hole drilled in to the top of a strong modern core is going to alter it, but there is nothing in particularly special about drilling out the pin vs drilling out core next to the pin...really?

This is the impression of the composite group of testers.  I wish someone would answer my question about the unusual situation of conventional drilling with very long fingers drilled in to today strong and dense cores and the change expected there?
http://www.ballreviews.com/drilling-layouts/conventional-grips-and-deep-finger-holes-into-high-end-cores-t310161.0.html#new

To my mind it seems this could have a pronounced effect especially if dense flip blocks are drilled through and lots of core material even below that drilled out?

Thoughts on that question above?

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

kidlost2000

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 12:13:18 PM »
Drilling holes deeper depending on the location will have slight changes in the core number differences to a point. They can increase and then decrease dynamics depending on depth.

You can down load blueprint software for yourself and answer your own questions and many other drilling questions you have in a matter of minutes. Then post those findings on here for everyone else to see.


http://blueprintbowling.com/freeTrial.aspx
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Dave81644

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Re: Pin drilled out by one of the finger holes
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 10:04:04 PM »
My favorite layout is the pin in my middle finger
gives me approx 50x5x55
the pin is nothing more than a marker point of core position

as stated above, the most influential part of ball motion is
Surface, pin-pap, core strength, ball layout
and I want to say that surface is like 50% of the equation the other factors make up the rest