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Author Topic: Conventional grips......I forget!  (Read 4716 times)

LuckyLefty

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Conventional grips......I forget!
« on: December 16, 2007, 04:15:31 AM »
I've misplaced my Bill Taylor book and I forget.

The front of hole is X inches shorter than the joint????

Pitch of thumb....is this directly from the Bill Taylor charts.
ie 4 1/4 span = 0 therefore a 3 inch span is 5/8 of an inch forward???

Help professional drillers??

Doing some for some young children's christmas presents!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

azguy

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 01:12:10 PM »
From the "book"...
3 in span....5/8 fdw

the "rule" says 3/8 in shorter than the second joint when hand well stretched

Good Luck !
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
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www.rlbowlerspro.com


LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 08:39:02 PM »
3/8 in overhang for conventional right?  When stretched...that is what I remembered....and use the span chart for conventional heh?

Thanks if that is all ok!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 10:08:57 AM »
anymore everyday drillers slammin out conventionals in there shop?

Do you go this much forward for the little tykes? ie 5/8 on a 3 inch span?


REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

JohnP

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 09:16:10 PM »
No, I don't go forward at all, stop at 0.  Every time I've tried to use forward with young bowlers I end up having to use a tremendous amount of bevel to avoid having their thumb hurt at the base.  --  JohnP

DP3

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 09:26:11 PM »
Same here, I agree with John P.  Plus, I find with alot of my customers, excessive forward leads to bad habits.  Usually in a sequence like this:

1- Follow 25 year old drilling instructions and pitch to span conversion charts without using your own flexibility and measurement checks yourself.

2- "This feels funny, the thumb feels too tight, it won't come out.  Can you open it/bevel it more?"

3- Hole gets opened up for them to clear the hole with their excessive squeeze at the knuckle due to an oversized/overbeveled thumbhole.

4- Their release becomes more of a pitch out into the lanes instead of a roll.

5- Lessons and excessive plug/redrilling/reslugging is needed to correct a bowler's performance due to a standardized gripping assesment being used.

I always go with my gut instinct and my own flexibility and span checks for every customer at every age with every span.  There's something about everyone that is going to be different when you account for that person's hand.
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop.  Hyattsville, MD
Coach: University of Maryland Baltimore County Mens Bowling


LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 09:39:41 PM »
HMMMMMM???

Around here we have a guy who goes 3/8 re...verse.

Another good driller told me he uses the span charts.....

I followed his lead and had to use a good amount of bevel....

(note this same driller drilled a nice hole for me recently with quite a bit of bevel).

I'm liking the way I'm throwing but I'm adding reverse to what I had been using....

I will watch  closely to observe throwing technique....

Thanks....

Any other thoughts.....??

Thanks!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 12:58:51 PM »
I talked to one of the best drillers I personally know.

He reiterated...a 5/8 forward on 3 inch span will feel the same as a 5/8 reverse on a 5 3/4 span.  He stated..."it's 63 degrees hand to thumb angle, in both cases and will feel the same."

I have no idea.  He is very well regarded driller and bowler in our area.

I remain open minded and will be watching for that head dipping motion I see when bowlers have too much forward for their span and flexibility at any age or with fingertip also.

One of the little guys has a pretty short thumb.  It remains to be seen...I will report back and am prepared to drill closer 0 instead of the forward I have introduced....(haven't drilled a conventional in a LONG time!)

REgards,

"NOT a shop"
Luckylefty


--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 01:08:48 PM »
Went with 5/8 forward (3 inch span and 2 3/4 span)and they seemed to have no problem out...and no problem holding.

They said the balls felt light(good fit I think) and threw with a real heavy roll.

No head dipping.  I did have a nice amount of bevel on the front surfaces...

REgards,

Luckylefty


--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DukeHarding

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 02:03:54 PM »
quote:


No head dipping.  I did have a nice amount of bevel on the front surfaces...



LL,
What is "head dipping"?
And how would it be significant in a ball drill?
--------------------
Duke Harding


LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2007, 02:24:38 PM »
Head dipping refers to the persons head...on top of their shoulders.

My observation is that people with dramatically "too" much forward for THEIR flexibility often have their head and shoulders dip downward to the lane while approaching the release point.

Similar to watching a chicken plucking seed off the ground.

The head "bobs" downward.

REgards,

LUckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DukeHarding

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2007, 02:42:36 PM »
quote:
Head dipping refers to the persons head...on top of their shoulders.

My observation is that people with dramatically "too" much forward for THEIR flexibility often have their head and shoulders dip downward to the lane while approaching the release point.

Similar to watching a chicken plucking seed off the ground.

The head "bobs" downward.

REgards,

LUckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


Interesting.
I thought that's what you were referring to.
Are they worried about thumb release?
--------------------
Duke Harding


LuckyLefty

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 10:05:36 PM »
I have no idea...but I see a reference to this in another's post above...

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Have you noticed this phenomena also Duke?
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

hammermike2000

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2007, 10:13:43 PM »
To add to this post...in regards to conventional spans, anything under 3" would definitely need at least 1/2 forward, otherwise it will be very difficult for the bowler to keep the ball on their hand at all.  I think the most I have gone forward for anybody was 5/8 (2 5/8 span)...as far as beginners go.

As for the "head dipping", I think it could go either way, either too much forward (trying to pry the ball off) or too much reverse (muscling it too much, also causing the head lean).
--------------------

BOWL N.C. TOUGH SHOTS TOUR

agroves

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Re: Conventional grips......I forget!
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2007, 07:39:40 AM »
When I drill a convential drill, I always stress not squeezing the ball.  I inform the customer that pressing the entire thumb forward is okay, but bending at the knuckle is bad.

Andrew
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FUFU