win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Degree system  (Read 2720 times)

Re-Evolution

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
Degree system
« on: December 06, 2006, 07:46:50 AM »
Does anyone else have issues with the way the degree system is taught.

The problem I have is that it is taught that you use the angle between the lines drawn from the PAP to Pin and from Pin to MB.

I feel that the degree system should use the angle between the line from pin to MB and your horizontal axis line to be more accurate, since it would remove distance above the midine from the equation.

The pic below is of 4 75° layouts all with the same pin to PAP distance only with varied pin above the midline distance. I would only consider the first 2 to have the MB in a flip position and the other 2 the MB would be in a length control position.

Pic

Agree/Disagree?
--------------------

*****Re-Evolution*****
Evolve to a smarter game.

www.Bowling-Info.com
BR.com's unofficial FAQ section



Edited on 12/6/2006 4:37 PM
Logged

 

Jeff Ussery

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
Re: Degree system
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 06:17:11 PM »
Disagree.....Because no matter which layout you choose, the distance the mass bias is located from the positive axis point does not change.  And the angle relationship between the pin, pap, and mass bias is also not changing.

Obviously the key component that is changing with each example is the pin height in relation to the gripping holes.  This helps to determine the height of the bow-tie point in your track flare.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
--------------------
Jeff Ussery
Powerhouse Training Clinics
www.proshoptraining.com
Pro Shop Help Desk Hotline - 785-843-2658
Logged

Re-Evolution

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
Re: Degree system
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 10:09:02 PM »
Jeff
I realise that the Pin to PAP and MB to PAP distances stay constant in all 4 examples. They are all roughly 5 X 6.75 with the pin moving up 1 1/8" or 15° each time.
However the MB position in relation to the VAL changes to a pretty large degree.
This change in MB to VAL distance has an influence also.
Every thing I have ever read about the degree system states that the 75° position will have the strongest reaction with flip.
Can you honestly say that you feel that all 4 would have a flip reaction.

EDIT:
Here is another PIC to help show what I am talking about. In this pic the Pin to MB, the relation between the line from the pin to the MB and the horizontal axis line stay constant and the MB stays in more of a strong/flip position. The line from the pin to PAP and pin to mass bias are reduced by 15° for every 1.125" or 15° that the pin is moved above the midline/horizontal axis line.
--------------------

*****Re-Evolution*****
Evolve to a smarter game.

www.Bowling-Info.com
BR.com's unofficial FAQ section



Edited on 12/7/2006 1:01 AM
Logged

Re-Evolution

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
Re: Degree system
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 06:44:25 AM »
quote:
Where did you here 75 degrees gives the strongest reaction?  My drilling book says 45 degrees.
--------------------
Drill To Fit Pro Shop
Toll Free 877.724.2195
www.drilltofit.com


In your book I am sure they are referring to the pin to PAP distance in degrees 45° being 3 3/8"/leverage.
http://bowlingknowledge.com/tips/mario/mario_315degreelayout.htm
Look at Diagram 33 near the bottom of the page.
--------------------

*****Re-Evolution*****
Evolve to a smarter game.

www.Bowling-Info.com
BR.com's unofficial FAQ section

Logged

chitown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5876
Re: Degree system
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 10:55:03 AM »
I feel the degree system is good.  If you don't take into account the pin as part of the angle then it works.  

I'm under the impression that the 75 degree is from the grip center line above the bridge.  That puts the MB in the strong position usually around 1" right of thumb for a right hander.


--------------------
GO BEARS!  Super Bowl bound!
Logged

YeahHossNV

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Degree system
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 02:03:51 PM »
The degree system is only a simplified way of measuring the distance from the P.A.P. to the MB. The the ball wants to rotate around the MB hence the term "prefered spin axis" or P.S.A. for short. The distance from that P.A.P. to the P.S.A or MB is what dictates the amount of time it takes to stabilize. Keep in in mind that most layouts will not fully stabilize.
--------------------
"Brunswick für das Leben"
Logged

Next Level PS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1874
Re: Degree system
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2006, 12:05:40 AM »
the Degree system is OK but I prefer the Morich/ Track inch system is more acurate. for example when laying out balls for players that have different PAP's seems to be better when looking for desired reaction. example say that you want a good lenght and a strong backend, player that has a pap of 5 over and o will get a different reaction than a bowler that has a pap of 5 over and 1" up. using the Morich system seems to hit the reation all the time.
A 4 X 5.25 X 3 above the midline will look different on both ball but will get the same reaction
--------------------
Next Level Proshop
Union, NJ

"THE BOWLERS WILL NOT BE DENIED"

Logged
Next Level Proshop
Union, NJ

"THE BOWLERS WILL NOT BE DENIED"

www.lovedoublesonline.com
Pages: [1]
« previous next »