Author Topic: Drill to help reduce rollout (Read 2848 times)

skbowl800 · « **on:** December 15, 2008, 05:02:21 AM »

I bowl on wood lanes with guardian heads and I was hoping you guys could help me with a drilling that will help my ball not roll out. They do use alot of oil in the heads to help offset the guardian but it is still gaurdian and I track pretty high.

My stats

Righty

Ball speed 16.5-17.5mph

Pap 5 3/8 over 0 up

Axis rotation 55 deg I am told

Approx 380 revs

Basically the only ball I have ever owned that doesn't roll out on my is my Neptune drilled pin over ring cg left in palm.

I know cover prep will help as well but I also want to know what drill you guys would suggest using.

Thanks for any help.
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www.badrap.org

nd300 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:13:37 PM »

Pin over the bridge with the Cg in the palm is supposed to be a smooth drilling with some length.You may/want to add some polish depending on if this is going to be your benchmark ball or your go to ball when the lanes dry out.
It will also depend upon the line you start with,and your own moves when the lanes change.
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Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........

skbowl800 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:18:41 PM »

So should I put the pin right above between the fingers or should I put it 1 inch above,2 inches? Should cg be stacked below or swung left like my Neptune?
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www.badrap.org

JustRico · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:22:13 PM »

Go with a pin closer to your PAP, i.e. 1 1/2-2" and a weight hole down VAL similar distance. This will react sooner on the lane and depending on the cover stock surface, should entice a 'roll-out' type reaction. It will definitely help the ball slow down, which is needed for 'roll-out'.
Surface is still more important. If you notice on the longer patterns, the players are using pins farther from their PAP, 5-5 3/4", and use surface to get the ball to slow down, but still retain movement in the back-end.
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Formerly BrunsRico

strikealot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:27:14 PM »

quote:
Go with a pin closer to your PAP, i.e. 1 1/2-2" and a weight hole down VAL similar distance. This will react sooner on the lane and depending on the cover stock surface, should entice a 'roll-out' type reaction. It will definitely help the ball slow down, which is needed for 'roll-out'.
Surface is still more important. If you notice on the longer patterns, the players are using pins farther from their PAP, 5-5 3/4", and use surface to get the ball to slow down, but still retain movement in the back-end.
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Formerly BrunsRico

ric i believe he wants to reduce roll out, not encourage it...i would go with pin3+ inches away from VAL and keep pin up..
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~<:-0======"IN CG WE TRUST" i chant as i pray to the static weight God...======

JustRico · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:38:57 PM »

Sorry, I did misread.

First of all, Guardian sucks.

Second, yes pins farther from the PAP will increase length. The problem on Guardian is the ball tends to react like it is rolling through mud. And it tends to not make much of a move in the back part of the lane.

What I would suggest is something farther away from PAP and higher up. Allow room to add a weight hole, to help it respond to the back end, once it gets there.
You can also try sorta what I suggested, go with a pin farther and higher then adjust the surface, if they are using that much volume in the fronts. It is difficult, as the ball will want to bog down through the fronts, but still push.

Again Guardian SUCKS.
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Formerly BrunsRico

skbowl800 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:52:36 PM »

Thanks guys, I do normally stick with pin up balls and I think I am gonna start looking into weaker stuff, prefferably symetrical, to help retain some energy. So my question is, if I go pin up like usual, where should the cg(symetrical) or MB(assy) go to help. I am not sure why but I tend to notice more rollout when the mb or cg is right of the pin.
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www.badrap.org

tenpinspro · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2008, 03:01:03 PM »

quote:
So my question is, if I go pin up like usual, where should the cg(symetrical) or MB(assy) go to help.

Since you have no vertical movement on your pap, you virtually have no tilt which is what helps promotes skid. Therefore, you'd want to keep the mb further away from pap as well to help promote length.

Your typical ball reaction wants to stand up or get into a roll pretty quick, now add the fact you're on Guardian which makes a ball grip and track even faster (especially if not treated properly), you have a double whammy going on here.

I had old Guardian where my shop was for years and it was pretty tough to clear without a ton of head oil. Even if you cleared the heads, Guardian doesn't really allow a ball to store a ton of energy downlane so corner pins were also a nightmare. My old house Mel's Bowl in Alameda, CA (where PBA used to bowl in the 80's) was known as a dungeon to the tour guys. Mainly speed dominant or spinner tracks were successful there.

Based on the description of your game, I'd recommend balls that are designed to be of skid/flip in nature (along with length layouts to help offset your early roll). Feel free to pm me and I can help in detail if desired, thanks.

On edit: Forgot to mention that I do not suggest placing the mb to the left of thumb (didn't clarify when I said farther away from pap) for you as that may clip the gripping holes with your pap.
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 12/15/2008 4:40 PM

no300tj · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2008, 08:44:43 AM »

We have a local center with guardian up front. "Rolling through mud", is the best description I've heard for the way the balls roll in the heads. I have a World Class Reactive with the pin above the bridge and cg 1/2" right of center of the grip. Polished, this ball continues better than any ball I've ever owned. I have never seen this ball roll out. It doesn't matter how dry the lanes are. I think the high RG rating is what creates this.
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whoever said size doesn't matter never had trouble with a thumbhole

skbowl800 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:24:05 PM »

Ok guys thanks for the help, I have one more question though. I was considering drilling a Creature Pearl Rico. I know this promotes early roll but with my pap it will be a 5 3/8 pin to pap plus it is a weaker coverstock so I thought it might be something to try since all my other stuff is pin up.

I did just get a Villain (weaker solid) in on trade and it has the pin below the fingers. I got a nice predictable reaction with it and the carry was ok, so I thougt the Creature Peal being a pearl ball might get a little more length but still be predictable and still have some hitting power with a rico layout.

Your thoughts
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www.badrap.org

Author Topic: Drill to help reduce rollout (Read 2848 times)

skbowl800

Drill to help reduce rollout

nd300

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

skbowl800

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

JustRico

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

strikealot

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

JustRico

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

skbowl800

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

tenpinspro

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

no300tj

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout

skbowl800

Re: Drill to help reduce rollout