Author Topic: Drilling and ball reaction question. (Read 3235 times)

charlest · « **on:** June 10, 2006, 10:57:46 AM »

My PAP is 5" over, with 0 up/down.
Tilt is 20 degrees.
Rotation is in the 45-60 degree range.

I get a very strong and continuous hooking action when I place the pin above the ring finger and CG directly below (or MB 1" right of the thumb hole).

I get a very good, slightly earlier reaction when I stack the pin and CG, with the pin directly BELOW the center of the bridge.

These two are mostly as expected. Now, here's the kicker (to my mind):

When I stack the pin above the center of the bridge and place the CG directly below it, for most balls, both strong and weak cores, polised, pearls and solids, I get a "hook and set" reaction, with a very strong roll almost 95% of the time. If a ball goes through skid, hook and roll cycle, it's as if balls drilled this way never go through the hook part of the cycle. (The ball doesn't roll out, unless I throw it slow. and I'm not talking short pins here; mostly 2.5 - 3.5" pin to CG.) Spooky.

Any one know why? It baffles me. Either I'm not thinking this all the way through (unusual for me) or I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_Mac · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2006, 09:58:37 PM »

What do the flare lines look like on balls that you have drilled like this?
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

DP3 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2006, 10:46:19 PM »

That's funny, for some odd reason for me, the higher I place the pin above finger level, the smoother the read I get out of the ball overall and down lane. When I go pin under ring, bridge, or in the leverage position 1 - 2" off the midline I get a much sharper reaction down the lane.

I always wondered why awhile ago my pin high 5" to PAP Absolute Inferno was so much smoother and rolly than my 5 1/2" pin under fingers Absolute that would just jacknife off the break.
--------------------
-DP3
Respect the Game

TheDude · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:26:05 AM »

I might have a solution to charlest question and an explanation to DP3 too.

Charlest: the pin distance on your pin above bridge cg in palm drilling is farther than the above the ring and below the bridge by likely 1/2 an inch. also this is placing your Cg farther away. In a weaker position for both. this is now probably a pap distance of 5 1/2 inches by 5 inches approximately. You will get a fairly sharp breakpoint but not alot of midlane.

DP3 you don't list your PAP location but the reason your reaction of your 5 inch absolute was smoother and more rolly compared to the 5 1/2 is it probably still produced more midlane than the 5 1/2 Absolute.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2006, 10:39:15 AM »

quote:
What do the flare lines look like on balls that you have drilled like this?
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

I don't know; never examined them.
Where are you leading? Any specific theory in mind?
thanks.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 6/11/2006 10:59 AM

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2006, 10:43:18 AM »

quote:
That's funny, for some odd reason for me, the higher I place the pin above finger level, the smoother the read I get out of the ball overall and down lane. When I go pin under ring, bridge, or in the leverage position 1 - 2" off the midline I get a much sharper reaction down the lane.

Don't forget that the other factors also have an influence, which is why I listed them. I am not sure to what degree, though.

Also the height of your PAP above the midline (the up/down spec of the PAP) affects what the pin's position with respect to finger holes AND with respect to the height of the pin above the midline means.

quote:

I always wondered why a while ago my pin high, 5" to PAP Absolute Inferno was so much smoother and rolly than my 5 1/2" pin under fingers Absolute that would just jacknife off the break.
--------------------
-DP3
Respect the Game

I can't tell either. I think it could be related to the height of the PAP above the midline. That is partially what may be affecting the difference in ball reaction that I am seeing.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_Mac · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2006, 10:54:50 AM »

quote:
quote:
What do the flare lines look like on balls that you have drilled like this?

I don't know; never examined them.
Where are you leading? Any specific theory in mind?
thansk.

Specific theory? Not quite... just trying to see if you were gathering as much information as possible to find the answer to your question. It might show something, but then again it might not. *shrug*
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2006, 11:00:59 AM »

quote:
I might have a solution to charlest question and an explanation to DP3 too.

Charlest: the pin distance on your pin above bridge cg in palm drilling is farther than the above the ring and below the bridge by likely 1/2 an inch. also this is placing your Cg farther away. In a weaker position for both. this is now probably a pap distance of 5 1/2 inches by 5 inches approximately. You will get a fairly sharp breakpoint but not alot of midlane.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

Yes, Timothy, I understand that, but I am not getting large differences in length with polished solids or with pearls. With the pin below the center of the bridge, the pin-PAP distance is 5 1/4"; pin above center of bridge is 5 5/8". Don't forget that only with large RG differentials, do differences in pin-PAP distances/lengths make any real, noticeable changes.

The differeence I noted in 2 decently close balls is an RG RS-X with the pin below the bridge and a Rush with the pin above. The Rush has the stronger (Read grippier) coverstock, I believe. Maybe its hook and set has to do with that, together with not using it on enough oil, more than the drilling. But I see this reaction difference with other balls, as well

It IS a major hassle trying to reduce the number influencing factors, when trying to isolate a reason for somehting happening with balls.

I had added a major dose of polish to the Rush. Maybe I'll see how strong it is, by trying it on the same oil as my Legends World Class or other really strong balls.

If anyone has more or new thoughts, I'd be interested in hearing them. Thanks for all the replies so far.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2006, 11:09:37 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
What do the flare lines look like on balls that you have drilled like this?

I don't know; never examined them.
Where are you leading? Any specific theory in mind?
thanks.

Specific theory? Not quite... just trying to see if you were gathering as much information as possible to find the answer to your question. It might show something, but then again it might not. *shrug*
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

Well, since the pin-PAP differences between the two drillings were not large, I wouldn't expect to see large differences in the flare. Some had larger RG differentials and some lower; the balls were different; so I used them on difering amounts of oil.

Plus, this wasn't very scientific on my part. The differences in ball reaction were kind of kept in the back of my mind and eventually the little light went on over my head and I saw that the ball reactions were fairly different one from the other based on what I would have expected, based on the design of each ball. Heck, since I didn't keep track of each ball over time, the reaction could even have been based on contaminating factors, like those small, almost unconscious release and speed changes we do to make a ball work and not have to change balls.

My memory is (still, for the time being) fairly good; so I'm fairly positive of my mental notes, and the situation is pretty much as I've stated originally.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BackToBasics · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2006, 07:39:04 PM »

Jeff,

What I used to do to figure out weird ball reaction differences was to place different colored tape on my axis and the pin to see the migration. What I'm guessing is happening, assuming the core/cover is eliminated, is the higher pin is taking the path of least resistance basically migrating to 90* to the axis (basically end over end downlane). This is probably because even though it's only about 1/2" further from the axis, it's close enough to migrate the other way. The layouts below the fingers and over the ring is migrating down and giving the desired reaction.

Even if it's not the case, I'm sure seeing the difference in tape paths may clue you in into the reaction differences. Hope it works.

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2006, 07:44:38 PM »

quote:
Jeff,

What I used to do to figure out weird ball reaction differences was to place different colored tape on my axis and the pin to see the migration. What I'm guessing is happening, assuming the core/cover is eliminated, is the higher pin is taking the path of least resistance basically migrating to 90* to the axis (basically end over end downlane). This is probably because even though it's only about 1/2" further from the axis, it's close enough to migrate the other way. The layouts below the fingers and over the ring is migrating down and giving the desired reaction.

Even if it's not the case, I'm sure seeing the difference in tape paths may clue you in into the reaction differences. Hope it works.

Fascinating possibility, Anthony.
I may try that when I get the opportunity.
(much like I tried the Solution PP EX - still using it, still a great ball!)

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

TheDude · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2006, 09:30:06 PM »

The Rush i know from personal experience has a bizare coverstock, it can slide sometimes then grab really hard, but generally its a blend of smoothness. the Rush is also a very low RG ball. The RSX is also one but it's a polished solid but it will roll out faster probably because it has a higher differential.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2006, 03:46:40 AM »

quote:
The Rush i know from personal experience has a bizare coverstock, it can slide sometimes then grab really hard, but generally its a blend of smoothness. the Rush is also a very low RG ball. The RSX is also one but it's a polished solid but it will roll out faster probably because it has a higher differential.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

I have them both re-polished to about a 1500 grit high gloss polish. Re-polishing was necessary on the RS-X because the out of the box finish was like roller skates on a marble floor. I had to polish the Rush to get any length to it. That's why I wanted to try it on much heavier oil if I can find some around my neck of the woods.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Author Topic: Drilling and ball reaction question. (Read 3235 times)

charlest

Drilling and ball reaction question.

J_Mac

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DP3

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TheDude

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charlest

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charlest

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J_Mac

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charlest

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charlest

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BackToBasics

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charlest

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TheDude

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charlest

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