Author Topic: Drilling this x-out (Read 5341 times)

qstick777 · « **on:** April 20, 2007, 10:29:07 AM »

PAP= 4 7/8 x 1/2 up
Revs ~ 250
Speed ~ 15 mph

Okay, I have a V2 Sweet x-out with the following specs:
3 1/2 oz top weight, and 5-6" pin.

What type of layout should/can I go with, and what type of reaction will it give me?

I was thinking of pin high and either:
a) label - drilling fingers deeper to remove weight, or
b) kicking CG and x-hole on the VAL in the thumb quadrant.

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JohnP · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:30:59 PM »

Before you do anything, confirm the cg location and top weight. If they are correct, I'd suggest a 4 x 4 1/2 with the pin above the fingers. That will put the cg close to grip center but kicked out enough to provide positive side weight in case you decide to add a balance hole to fine tune the reaction. -- JohnP

strikealot · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:46:35 PM »

i would drill 5 inch pin to pap pin up...cg isnt going to matter much from what ive learned on here lately...
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qstick777 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2007, 03:59:27 PM »

quote:
Before you do anything, confirm the cg location and top weight. If they are correct, I'd suggest a 4 x 4 1/2 with the pin above the fingers. That will put the cg close to grip center but kicked out enough to provide positive side weight in case you decide to add a balance hole to fine tune the reaction. -- JohnP

Thanks John!

I guess now that I have the scale and the instructions, I guess you expect me to learn how to use them?!? I thought I bought it just to look at it.

It'll probably take me all weekend to figure it out, but I guess I have to learn somehow.

I can't wait for all the pro shop guys to chime in with the "that's why we charge $xx for drilling a ball," and "that's what you get for buying a ball off the internet!"

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DP3 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2007, 05:01:14 PM »

Just use any pin to PAP distance you want, just make sure the pin height above the midline is no less than 3". Then use any C.G. distance to PAP you want and decide if you want a Flare Increasing hole, flare decrasing hole, or a hole on your PAP to stabilize the backend.
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Re-Evolution · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2007, 01:58:30 AM »

If it were me I would go with a 5 x 3 pin up 3.5". IMHO anything less than a pin up distance of 3.5 may make it difficult to remove the thumb weight based on the amount of top weight, especially if you choose to not swing the CG out toward your VAL.
I mapped it out on some plotting software I have based on your PAP and a pin to CG distance of 5.5". All of the layouts I mapped had a pin distance of 5" with the CG distance ranging from 5-2". I just wanted to get an better idea of how far below the midline the CG would fall with varying degrees of CG shift. I can create a .jpg of it to give you an idea of where the pin and cg would be in relation to your grip.
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qstick777 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:09:08 AM »

quote:
If it were me I would go with a 5 x 3 pin up 3.5". IMHO anything less than a pin up distance of 3.5 may make it difficult to remove the thumb weight based on the amount of top weight, especially if you choose to not swing the CG out toward your VAL.
I mapped it out on some plotting software I have based on your PAP and a pin to CG distance of 5.5". All of the layouts I mapped had a pin distance of 5" with the CG distance ranging from 5-2". I just wanted to get an better idea of how far below the midline the CG would fall with varying degrees of CG shift. I can create a .jpg of it to give you an idea of where the pin and cg would be in relation to your grip.
--------------------

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That .jpg would be helpful.

What type of software are you using? I have a trial version of GripWare from Jayhawk, but to be perfectly honest I haven't been been able to figure it out! I know, I should just RTFM!
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1fife · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:13:48 AM »

pin about an inch or so above fingers(in between them) and kick cg our abour 2 inches right of thumb(it wont be as low as thumb) and then you will need a x tra hole

propbably be about a 5.5x3.5 drilling

Re-Evolution · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:26:06 AM »

quote:
That .jpg would be helpful.

What type of software are you using? I have a trial version of GripWare from Jayhawk, but to be perfectly honest I haven't been been able to figure it out! I know, I should just RTFM!

I also have GripWare but it is not very accurate when it comes to layouts so I use a non bowling related math program that with some ingenuity is quite useful. The pic only has a series of dots to show the pin, PAP and cg placements as well as lines to represent the midline and bridgline. Don't know your span and hole sizes or I could also map them.
Pic
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qstick777 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2007, 04:31:56 PM »

quote:
quote:
That .jpg would be helpful.

What type of software are you using? I have a trial version of GripWare from Jayhawk, but to be perfectly honest I haven't been been able to figure it out! I know, I should just RTFM!

I also have GripWare but it is not very accurate when it comes to layouts so I use a non bowling related math program that with some ingenuity is quite useful. The pic only has a series of dots to show the pin, PAP and cg placements as well as lines to represent the midline and bridgline. Don't know your span and hole sizes or I could also map them.
Pic
--------------------

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Thanks!

Span and grip are in my profile:

Total span: 4 1/4 and 4 3/8 (to with 1/8 pitch down, using powerlift inserts - size 11 and 21). Looks to be 3 7/8 & 4 1/16 cut-to-cut.
Thumb: 27/32 (3/16 left and 1/8 reverse)

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qstick777 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2007, 09:11:58 PM »

Okay, so looks like I'll go with drilling #8 (drilling sheet recommends pins of 3-6"....this one is 5 1/2")- http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/drilling_instructions.php?title=Symmetric%20Core, which is basically as Re-evolution suggested - pin to PAP of 5", and CG to PAP of 3".

Ebonite list lane conditions as: Lighter oil with carrydown, great for players with slower ball speed, medium axis rotation, or stronger revs.

I did a crude layout tonight and it'll look something like this:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/qstick777/album/576460762351530136/photo/294928804353413841/21

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/qstick777/album/576460762351530136/photo/294928804353379840/22

Obviously I'll weigh it up before I do the final layout, and I'll use a sharper pencil and an actual span ruler (instead of just a quarter scale).

For the x-hole, Ebonite's drilling #8 suggests drawing a line from the grip center through the CG and putting the x-hole on the VAL.

This will be my first drill on anything other than a practice ball, so wish me luck! I hope it goes well, but I don't have a lot invested in this ball, so if I completely screw it up it won't be a huge loss!

Thanks for all the help!
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qstick777 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2007, 08:03:19 PM »

Drilled it up today, but won't get a chance to throw it until tomorrow....maybe.

Screwed up when I set my lateral pitches on the finger - had it set backwards. So to avoid extreme lateral, or having the finger holes meet, I went ahead and shifted the drilling.

Ended up with 3" pin to PAP and 3" pin to CG.

Weighed the ball and ended up with 2 7/8 oz positive side weight and 1 1/2 oz thumb weight.

Figure I'll need a 1 1/8" hole approx 2 7/8" deep to bring it back to 1/2 oz side. I'm going to throw it before I put the x-hole, just to see how it reacts.

Any ideas for x-hole placement? Ebonite seems to recommend putting x-holes on the VAL, on line from grip center through the CG. That will put the x-hole 2 7/8" down from my PAP, and slightly right of the CG.

Pics:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/qstick777/album/576460762351530136/photo/294928804354795852/24

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/qstick777/album/576460762351530136/photo/294928804354814992/23

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Edited on 4/28/2007 8:42 PM

qstick777 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2007, 11:02:43 AM »

quote:
Since everybody; except a few, agrees that static weights "nomadda"
can we assume there are two types of "holes"?

1. A weight hole to make the ball legal for static weight which doesn't affect the balls performance. Just drill it anywhere to remove weight desired, in area desired.

2. A balance hole that reaches into the core of the ball, changing core shape and thus core dynamics.

So, if I just want to make the ball legal, all I need to do it drill the hole to take out some weight. If I want to change the reaction, I need to hit the core?

Do I need to tell the ball what the hole is intended for?

I'm not sure I can drill almost 3" into the ball and not hit the core.

According to BrunsNick:

quote:

BrunsNick
Posted: 4/13/2007 12:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl,

Any hole placed in the ball will alter the reaction to some degree. However, until you remove the mass, the ball reaction will not change.
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Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
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Â¡Viva la naciÃ³n de Brunswick!

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qstick777 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:20:12 AM »

I finally got to throw the ball this morning. It rolls and hits like a turd!

I'll be putting a huge hole in it!
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qstick777 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2007, 05:08:11 PM »

Okay, so I ran out during lunch and put a hole in that bad boy.

Put it right where Ebonite suggests, on the VAL, grip center thru the CG. Barely got it legal - ended up just under 1 oz of side weight, and 1 oz of finger weight (I think....I really need to write stuff down!).

I used the numbers from the Weight removal sheet from Jayhawk (http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Pro_Shop_Forms/weightremoval.pdf), I guess the numbers are based on higher density balls, because I drilled a 1 1/8" hole about 3 inches (as far down as my press would go) and only took out a little more than 1 7/8 ounces.

Won't get to throw it again until tomorrow. Hopefully the reaction is better. If not, I guess I'll get to practice plugging!
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Author Topic: Drilling this x-out (Read 5341 times)

qstick777

Drilling this x-out

JohnP

Re: Drilling this x-out

strikealot

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

DP3

Re: Drilling this x-out

Re-Evolution

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

1fife

Re: Drilling this x-out

Re-Evolution

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out

qstick777

Re: Drilling this x-out