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Author Topic: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions  (Read 2428 times)

pin-chaser

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1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« on: November 05, 2009, 05:47:03 AM »
Recently I have been physically bowling well but scoring poorly. I have been hitting the pocket nearly 100 percent and shooting ALOT of single pins (namely flat 10's). I realize the issue is related to the following questions:

1. Is there a layout that promotes the retention of axis rotation and not standup as soon?

2. Is there a grip (fingers and thumb tilt) that willing promote an axis tilt release? (my release is more end over end and I when trying to create more axis tilt my mistakes are always up the back... it would be best to be able to release to ball with my normal release but to have the ball come off my hand spinning)

3. Cores play a significant role in maintaining axis rotation (buring up energy)... what core characteristics would promote the retention of axix rotation?



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Strider

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Re: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 03:47:22 PM »
One I often forget, but remembered a few nights ago...  After starting with a good first game, and a 4 bagger to start the next, I rung 5 consecutive 10 pins.  I made the normal adjustments trying to get the ball to face the pocket better without much luck, unless you want to count leaving several different types of 10 pins.  Tried a ball change to something with a very different motion.  No luck.  Went back to the first ball and roughly where I began my moves, and put my thumb in first, then my fingers.  Threw 5 out of the last 6 strikes to salvage a decent night.

The thumb first set up gives me a different path down the lane than the traditional fingers first start.  For me, it helps me stay behind the ball better.  Not exactly what you were looking for, but for you maybe it will have a different reaction.  Plus, maybe your ball was retaining axis reaction just a touch too long (a bit behind the head pin, but still finishing strong) and it could still work for you.

I prefer symmetric cores over asymmetric ones if you want to retard axis migration.  Also, keep your mass bias (marked or assumed - 6 3/4" from the pin through the CG) more towards the track.  Pointing them towards the PAP will want to make the ball lose axis rotation faster.
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Cobalt Bomb

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Re: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 04:10:47 PM »
Quote
Recently I have been physically bowling well but scoring poorly. I have been hitting the pocket nearly 100 percent and shooting ALOT of single pins (namely flat 10's). I realize the issue is related to the following questions:

1. Is there a layout that promotes the retention of axis rotation and not standup as soon?

2. Is there a grip (fingers and thumb tilt) that willing promote an axis tilt release? (my release is more end over end and I when trying to create more axis tilt my mistakes are always up the back... it would be best to be able to release to ball with my normal release but to have the ball come off my hand spinning)

3. Cores play a significant role in maintaining axis rotation (buring up energy)... what core characteristics would promote the retention of axix rotation?



Longer pin to pap distances will help with length as well as short pin to val distances(pin up). Look for cores with higher rg numbers, that will aid in retaining energy.
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T-GOD

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Re: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 07:53:53 PM »
quote:
1. Is there a layout that promotes the retention of axis rotation and not standup as soon? Pins closer to your axis will help retain your axis of rotation. Higher amounts of side and finger weight will also help in keeping the ball from rolling out and leaving 10 pins. But, after reading your profile, with a 20.5 mph ball speed, I don't think your ball is standing up too soon, it's going too long, which is why you're leaving flat 10's imo. Therefore you need the ball to stand up sooner with less retention of rotation..!!  

2. Is there a grip (fingers and thumb tilt) that willing promote an axis tilt release? (my release is more end over end and I when trying to create more axis tilt my mistakes are always up the back... it would be best to be able to release to ball with my normal release but to have the ball come off my hand spinning) I'm assuming your right handed. Going with left lateral pitch in the thumb, combined with more right pitch in the fingers will increase the tilt of your ball. Also, cocking your wrist to the inside of your body will allow you to create more turn on the ball without spinning the ball. Your high speed is why you're leaving flat 10's. More turn will also give you more length and leave you flatter 10's, especially if you catch some oil.

3. Cores play a significant role in maintaining axis rotation (buring up energy)... what core characteristics would promote the retention of axix rotation? Longer pin out balls and asymmetrical cores retain energy longer than balls with the pins closer in and/or symmetrical cores. But, they also release the energy faster when it starts to release.

As stated earlier, you need less retention and an earlier roll/release of energy, due to your speed, imo. I could be wrong with all this and why you're leaving alot of flat 10's, but this is my thought with you having such a high ball speed.
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pin-chaser

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Re: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 03:14:45 PM »
Thanks all for you information.

Absolute, I believe you are correct but I can not seem to generate more (at least consistantly). I am 49 and going down hill. I have been struggling with using a different grip to help relax my hand and armswing for the past two years and have struggled with it. I just decided this past week to go back to the grip I used in the 80''s and just live with it.

TGOD... The ball speed listed is off my hand and not off the pin deck. Typically I am in the 15.5 to 16.5 off the pin deck which means the ball is slowing down as it encounters friction (as it should...albeit... certianly too much for me).

I have been described as a bowler who creates heavy roll...even in the oil, my ball is rev''''''''ing and reading midlanes are hardly ever an issue. That being the case most of my 10''''''''s are flat where the ball is going off the pin deck rolling straight through the pin deck and not rolling into the pocket (say at a 5 degree angle). This causes the ball to deflect toward the 9 pin.

All of these statements suggest that the ball has already stood up and has found its stable axis before entering the pocket.

This week I shot 714and 688 (which btw is my 1st 700 series this year and I am averging ~225 in 3 different leagues in 3 different houses) where I left probably 20 tens between the two sets and all of them flat (and I dont think I missed the pocket in either set). If I could have carried maybe 5 or 6 key stikes, I would have shot 750''''''''s each and give me all of them and I would have had 800 each. The thing is I watch others and they carry them, I can see how are balls enter the pocket differently and I need more power at the pins with the ball entering at more of an angle and sill hooking. I figure more axis rotation would help achieve all of those things.

The key is that I can see me having this issue in one or two houses and from night to night, but this year I just cant knock them down at all. Im a good spare shooter but every night nearly every ball has a chance to strike and I am striking only ~50%. You would think that I could have had some break out night by now but all I am is frustrated.


Edited on 11/8/2009 4:23 PM

Edited on 11/8/2009 4:35 PM

Edited on 11/8/2009 4:39 PM
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pin-chaser

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Re: 1 Layout, 1 Grip and 1 Ball Questions
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 11:24:45 AM »
UPDATE:

Since this posting I decided give h3ll or highwater I was going to get my thumb out of the ball. So I decided out of the blue to go back to my 1980's span. 5/16 long on middle finger and 3/8 longer on ring. But alot more reverse. (still not too stretched).

What has transpired is nothing short of remarkable. The First night out, i shot 781 (blew 800 as I sqeezed the shot). Then I won City Singles Sratch (770), then City Doubles (my score was 817) and all events with 2245. Subsequently I had an 814. To make the story short, I have bowled 18 sanctioned series and have averaged 243.8 (up about 20 pins).

The difference is my ball speed (up ~1.5 mph) and rev rate (+50rpm) have all increased. Along the way I can get around the ball more which delays reaction down lane. It is REMARKABLE, my ball hits like someone elses.

I could not pry the ball off my hand before and now my swing is loose and I feel it off my fingers (out toward the target and not up). I am extending toward the target. What a difference
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