Author Topic: Ball with 1 oz top weight, 4.5-inch pin... (Read 5597 times)

JessN16 · « **on:** February 28, 2008, 12:28:22 PM »

Wasn't really in the market for it, but I got a Track Threat off eBay tonight for the minor fortune of $14. (g)

The ball is an X-out for low top weight (1 oz.). I asked this question on the Track forum as well, but with a 4.5-inch pin, what would be my best drill options?

Tweener, good speed, PAP 4 over 3/8 up, good circumference coverage. Looking for something to use on mediums and go longer than my polished solids, but not to get all crazy on the backends.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2008, 08:50:02 PM »

I may be failing to understand you fully; my apologies...

Are you saying 30 to 35 degree layout pin-to-PAP?

Also, where would you put CG on this? I've had someone suggest CG on the PAP.

I don't mind a little angularity here (i.e., we don't absolutely have to make this a rolly drill) just as long as the words "skid/snap" don't come into the picture.

Jess

JohnP · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2008, 08:56:04 PM »

Before you drill it, check the cg location and the top weight on a dodo scale. I'm guessing neither are correct. -- JohnP

JessN16 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2008, 09:39:18 PM »

OK, please be patient with me, as I'm still the novice driller...

If I understand this advice correctly, the pin is going to end up somewhere above the bridge, and the CG is going to end up swung out to the right, almost to or on my PAP, correct?

Follow-up question: What are the general characteristics/hook shape I'll see from this? I ask because it sounds like I'm combining an early-rolling characteristic (CG on or near PAP) with a hook-late characteristic (pin over bridge or middle).

Thanks for all the help so far!

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2008, 10:21:53 PM »

I tend to have issues with low pins. Very few balls that I drill with low pins favor me.

What tends to happen with low pins is the upper bowtie ends up moving laterally across the ball above the fingers, and if I remeasure PAP on those balls, my PAP appears to end up under rather than over.

I have good success with pins over the bridge but I'm not accustomed to swinging the CG out to the PAP. I have one ball drilled like that (AMF XS) and I love it, but I also have a humongous weight hole in that ball above the PAP on the VAL and it's an assymetric core. So I don't know how much carries over to a ball like the Threat.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 29, 2008, 10:08:27 AM »

quote:
quote:
OK, please be patient with me, as I'm still the novice driller...

If I understand this advice correctly, the pin is going to end up somewhere above the bridge, and the CG is going to end up swung out to the right, almost to or on my PAP, correct?

Follow-up question: What are the general characteristics/hook shape I'll see from this? I ask because it sounds like I'm combining an early-rolling characteristic (CG on or near PAP) with a hook-late characteristic (pin over bridge or middle).

Thanks for all the help so far!

Jess

The Cg has little to no relevance in ball reaction. The placement of the cg is strictly for the purpose of placing the balance hole in the appropriate position.

With your pap where it is, a 5 by drilling should place the pin almost above the middle finger. Sometimes with that long a pin to pap with a low track, the ball can become a little over under. The best way to make the ball more consistent with a 5 by layout on a low tracker is to place a flare increasing balance hole PAST the VAL (the VAL runs at 90 degrees to the midline, through your pap)

Because of the low top weight, you will need to "kick" or move the CG to the right furthur to create enough side weight to be able to use a balance hole effectively. Given the long pin, this creates an ideal situation, because you will be able to move the cg out quite a fair way before finger weight becomes an issue.

To talk you through the layout properly, I will need to know the method you use. DO you use degree (ie: prosect quaterscale?) or do you draw an arc from pin and an arc from cg? Perhaps you use the in vogue dual angle technique?

Let me know.
--------------------
"One can only show the right way so many times before he gives in and lets the ignorant fail as their destiny dictates..." - (someone that tried)

"Remember, the cover doesnt matter at all! When you are packing a Diamond core, you have everything covered!" - Zoltan, before he created mankind...

I have a Pro-Sect scale and I can lay out balls a couple of different ways. Method No. 1: Take into account the ball's individual characteristics (the ball, its top weight, pin distance, etc.) and apply a pattern that has worked for me on another similar ball in the past. Then once I get the crosshairs drawn on the ball, measure back to see exactly what I'm laying out (pin-to-PAP, angle to the MB, etc.) to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid. Not very high-tech, I know, but it works. I'm familiar enough with the basics of what layouts do to know the difference between 4x4 or five-by, or what MB placement does in the track vs. in the thumb-positive quadrant, etc. There are still things I need to learn but I feel I have the basics, at least. That comes from years of being a pest to my ball drillers while they were drilling my stuff.

Method No. 2: Mo's Dual Angle system. I've laid a couple of balls out this way and found it's not only ridiculously easy to do, but Mo's descriptions of what I should get when I'm done are pretty accurate.

One thing I need to note: Even though my PAP is 4 over 3/8 up, I get very good circumference coverage on the ball. I do not spin it or even come close to spinning it. I guess I'm somewhat like Michael Fagan in that regard.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2008, 06:26:59 PM »

LOL...ball came in today.

"CG mismarked?" Try CG not marked AT ALL.

Then, when I finally determined where it was, I marked it off for CG-axis drilling and realized the ball looked a little funny. I went back inside and put it next to some of my other Track gear that has the Flaming T logo and realized all the logos were bunched very closely together and really skewed, angle-wise.

With CG on the axis, the word "THREAT" falls directly in the path of and perfectly lined up with my track.

Oh well, it's a $14 NIB ball so I won't complain much.

I will say this: I finally drilled up a ball myself that feels just like my favorite equipment. This is my fourth ball to drill (aside from an old ball I was using for drilling practice) and I'm quite happy with the feel.

Jess

Edited on 3/5/2008 7:29 PM

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2008, 10:33:17 PM »

I was going to say CG axis pin over the bridge. =:^D

JessN16 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2008, 11:52:54 PM »

quote:
I was going to say CG axis pin over the bridge. =:^D

Close! It ended up CG axis, pin over ring.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2008, 11:53:33 PM »

quote:
I was going to say, for someone who drills there own stuff it still sounds like you still don't know what your doing!!!
--------------------
An angel in the book of life
wrote down our baby's birth
and whispered as she closed the book
"too beautiful for earth"

In Loving Memory
Brooke Marie Winton
03/15/05

Uh, care to explain exactly what you mean by that?

Jess

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2008, 03:06:02 AM »

quote:
quote:
I was going to say, for someone who drills there own stuff it still sounds like you still don't know what your doing!!!
--------------------
An angel in the book of life
wrote down our baby's birth
and whispered as she closed the book
"too beautiful for earth"

In Loving Memory
Brooke Marie Winton
03/15/05

Uh, care to explain exactly what you mean by that?

Jess

To be honest, I was wondering also. You didn't know what the drilling angle was. You said "Are you saying 30 to 35 degree layout pin-to-PAP?", but an angle needs 3 points, not two. It's always been PAP to pin to CG/MB. ALWAYS. (Until Mo recently introduced his two angle procedure to help account for Storm's "buffer", which, in turn, helps to incorporate "the pin height above the midline" factor.)

That has been a drilling basic for a long time. I was wondering if you were just going to tell your driller what you wanted; as I read, I realized you were drilling your own ball.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

JessN16 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2008, 11:03:38 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I was going to say, for someone who drills there own stuff it still sounds like you still don't know what your doing!!!
--------------------
An angel in the book of life
wrote down our baby's birth
and whispered as she closed the book
"too beautiful for earth"

In Loving Memory
Brooke Marie Winton
03/15/05

Uh, care to explain exactly what you mean by that?

Jess

To be honest, I was wondering also. You didn't know what the drilling angle was. You said "Are you saying 30 to 35 degree layout pin-to-PAP?", but an angle needs 3 points, not two. It's always been PAP to pin to CG/MB. ALWAYS. (Until Mo recently introduced his two angle procedure to help account for Storm's "buffer", which, in turn, helps to incorporate "the pin height above the midline" factor.)

That has been a drilling basic for a long time. I was wondering if you were just going to tell your driller what you wanted; as I read, I realized you were drilling your own ball.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Well, there are two reasons I asked that question.

First, I've seen it pertain to different things even on this site, depending on who is doing the talking. One would assume it means pin-to-PAP but I've seen people on BallReviews give this as a description before: "Pin over the bridge, then MB at 45 degrees." So I figured I'd be safe rather than sorry.

Second, it somewhat depends on what area of the country you grew up in as to what terminology means. I still hear people around my area refer to the clock system. My first coach/driller didn't use degrees, but would simply say "4x4, pin over ring, CG stacked below," which, if you mark those two things out relative to your PAP, pretty much lock you into one spot on the ball anyway.

I sort of took offense at the notion that asking questions is a bad thing. Is everyone supposed to be an expert before they start drilling balls? You've got to learn somehow and in regards to drilling balls, you learn by asking questions and then by practical experience. This is a craft, not surgery.

I already have a good working understanding of what layouts do; I recently decided I needed a milder ball to play direct from the outside on a dryer shot, and knowing my own game and what my house was like, figured a a 6x6 on an older ball (Ebonite Matrix Conquest) would do the trick (it actually measures out to 5.7 x 5.8, pin over middle, with a shallow angle to the PAP). And I was right; the ball does just what I wanted.

I figured I might as well discuss my options first and get as much input as I could from more experienced people. I don't think that means I "don't know what I'm doing."

Jess

Author Topic: Ball with 1 oz top weight, 4.5-inch pin... (Read 5597 times)

JessN16

Ball with 1 oz top weight, 4.5-inch pin...

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charlest

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