Author Topic: Finger and Thumb Pitches (Read 11832 times)

Borincano · « **on:** December 27, 2003, 04:10:44 AM »

I am have been trying to get all possible answers to drillings and layouts. Have read and browse every book about bowling but in none of them explains the details and advantages of the pitches needed in the finger grips and thumb holes. Example question: What is the advantage of 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 of forward or reverse pitch for the fingers? After that is answered. Now we put a finger grip with a 1/8 power lift into the finger holes. What happens next?

If your thumb is is developing a bump in the inside of your thumb. How can you avoid it? What type of lateral pitch will I need?

If you want more lift without finger grips. How much and what type of pitch you need in your finger holes?

We take out the aspect of any given hand type or structure. Just want intelligent and straight answers. No but's, duh's or "You know what am saying."

Burak Natal · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:34:50 PM »

Hi Borincano,

There are many sources you can find about pitches..
Generally the more you have reverse pitch in your thumb, the earlier your thumb clears. Also bigger the palm, the more reverse angle it requires. Of course there are many other factors like flexibility, type of skin and so..

These pages will give you a very good understanding of the basics of pitching the finger holes
First of all please check:
http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Fitting_Tips/fitting.html
http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Pro_Shop_Forms/directions.pdf
http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Pro_Shop_Forms/thumbangle.pdf

Although there are some basics, you may find a different combination other than the book by experimenting and trying different pitches.

If you will have questions after checking the site I mentioned above, please ask. I'm sure, also some other good drillers will chime in then.

Hope this helps..
Burak

Borincano · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:20:23 PM »

Burak Natal,

Thanks but I had already seen the Jayhawk site. It still does not explain the effects and causes of the pitches on the bowling ball. That is what I am lookiing for in this site. There are a lot of knowledgeable people. Will they share their insights, theories and now hows? Let see how many people we can find that could explain with logic the concept of the pitches.

Burak Natal · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2003, 03:06:44 PM »

quote:

It still does not explain the effects and causes of the pitches on the bowling ball.
..
Let see how many people we can find that could explain with logic the concept of the pitches.

Borincano, please don't think too complicated. Answer of "the concept of the pitches" is so simple. For a proper release, ball must fit to your hand like a glove. This is why we pitch the holes, to find the most comfortable way for a bowler to release in properly, in relation with your fingers' natural angles and flexibility.

Finger pitches:
Basic rule is the flexibility. More flexible your fingers, more reverse pitch you use. More stiff, more forward pitch. This is for maintaining the maximum available contact between your fingers' surface and the ball.

Thumb pitches:
Flexibility, natural angle of fingers and thumb, length of thumb and length of palm are determining factors.
More reverse angle you have in your thumb, earlier it will clear. More forward, later thumb clearance (See the chart). Again, purpose is to find the best comfortable angle for a proper thumb release.
Lateral pitch can be determined easily by Bill Taylor's famous grabbing test.

Recalling the chart, if I may give an example, let's assume that you and I have the same finger and thumb natural angles and flexibility, and we both have 1/8 reverse and 1/4 lateral right pitch for the thumb hole. But let's say that my thumb is longer than yours. Longer thumb you have, more it will stay in the ball during the release. In that case, generally speaking, I have to have little more reverse pitch than yours.

For the calluses, main principle is pitching the hole more to the side of callus. For instance if you have a problem in your right side of your thumb, switching slightly to left lateral pitch can solve the problem (for example if your pitch is 1/8 right, make it 1/16 right or more) But of course there are other factors cause a callus. Must be careful about it. For instance your thumb may need an oval drilling. If the degree of the oval thumb hole does not fit with the angle of your natural thumb angle, it will certainly cause bad calluses.
I used to drill my thumb with a 50 degrees oval. I had a small callus to the right and inside of my thumb. Bob Hart from Storm checked it and told me to try 70 degrees (Although my natural angle is not 70 degrees..). Now I feel more comfortable.

If you want more lift, use finger grips.

Hope this helps..
Burak

Borincano · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2003, 04:06:00 PM »

Burak Natal,

Thanks for your insight of thumb problems I will try them out in an old drilled out bowling ball.

Here is my thought about when we finger drilled with a 1/8 pitch reverse for your fingers and you put in a 1/8 lift grip finger it brings it up to a 1/4 pitch and if it is a forward pitch then it cancels the pitch to zero. SO it is better to stick with plain ovals to avoid problems with the initial pitch that was drilled in the ball. To avoid your finger nails sliding tight against the bowling ball finger holes.

What are your thoughts.

Burak Natal · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2003, 05:05:29 PM »

Well, I see your point.

Previous threads, some drillers advised to go 1/8 forward for your fingers, if you will use 1/8 lift grip to cancel the pitch to the degree you should have. However, some others advised not to do so. Because the pitch of the finger grip is only on the front part of it. Therefore extra pitch will effect the inside of your fingers but will not effect your nails (means do not create any problem for your nails etc.).. But when you change the pitch of the hole, you change everything.
Although there are methods, scales etc to determine the proper pitch, it is the matter of good grip and feeling in the end. Best way is to experiment.

The problem you have mentioned "finger nails sliding tight" can be caused by other reasons. Grip can be too tight for instance..

By the way, sometimes it can be confusing so please note that when I say "forward pitch for the fingers", I mean "away from the palm". And I mean "to the palm" when I say "reverse".

Regards,
Burak

cgilyeat · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2003, 05:19:41 PM »

Burak, I'm not sure I agree with your description of reverse and forward pitches for the fingers. My fingers are less flexible than they used to be and I now pitch the fingers 3/8 away, not forward, and use oval inserts without the lifts to keep the balls of the fingers more in contact with the holes. This would be the opposite of what you described.

Burak Natal · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2003, 05:45:20 PM »

quote:
Burak, I'm not sure I agree with your description of reverse and forward pitches for the fingers. My fingers are less flexible than they used to be and I now pitch the fingers 3/8 away, not forward, and use oval inserts without the lifts to keep the balls of the fingers more in contact with the holes. This would be the opposite of what you described.

cgilyeat sir, I don't think it is opposite. That's way I explained what I mean by saying forward and reverse. Please check my latest post.
Because of less flexibility you change to 3/8 away, which I call it forward

Forward=Away from palm ( for fingers)
Reverse=To the palm (for fingers)
In terms of terminology, I'm incorrect. Because technically, geometrical center of the ball is taken as a reference to define forward and reverse.
To the center = forward
Away from center = reverse.
I'm totally aware of that.
But logically I'm correct. Forward means straight ahead, away from your body where as reverse stands for the opposite

Burak

Borincano · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2003, 09:19:44 PM »

Burak Natal,

Now I have a better understanding of the pitch configuration deal. I appreciate your help. Thanks.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2003, 09:20:05 PM »

No,

You've created your own standard and lingo.

Forward is for both thumb and fingers towards the center of the palm.
Reverse for both thumb and fingers is away from the center of the palm!

REgards,

Luckylefty

Burak Natal · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2003, 07:19:45 AM »

LuckyLefty, Jabroni..
You are both right. That's why I explained what is correct in terms of "universal terminology"

.

But I must admit that I really don't like it.. Sometimes my feelings takeover my logic.. my mistake..

Regards,
Burak

JohnP · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2003, 10:40:44 AM »

If you can find a copy of Bill Taylor's book on fitting and drilling, he gives an explanation of what pitches to use and why. The finger and thumb pitches go together with the span to give a constant angle between the fingers and thumb for best release. Then you have to adjust for finger and thumb flexibility. The book also contains the pitch charts he developed. -- JohnP

Edited on 12/29/2003 11:39 AM

Author Topic: Finger and Thumb Pitches (Read 11832 times)

Borincano

Finger and Thumb Pitches

Burak Natal

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Borincano

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Burak Natal

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Borincano

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Burak Natal

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cgilyeat

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Burak Natal

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Borincano

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LuckyLefty

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Burak Natal

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JohnP

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