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Author Topic: Flare question  (Read 2665 times)

JohnP

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Flare question
« on: May 11, 2004, 09:26:58 PM »
I've wondered for some time exactly how a ball flares.  We say the core is "stable" when the pin is on the PAP or 6 3/4" from the PAP (in the track).  Thus the core is either horizontal or vertical.  But for a pin position in between, which way does the core flare?  Say for a 5 1/2" pin, does the core flare toward the horizontal or vertical position?  It would seem to make sense to me for it to flare toward the vertical position, since it is so much closer to that than horizontal.  But if that's the case, there has to be some in between pin location, around that magical 3 3/8", that has the potential to flare either way?  Or do all pin positions flare toward the more stable horizontal position?  Anyone know???  --  JohnP

 

Jeffrevs

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 12:31:14 PM »
yes! 3 3/8 is the MOST wobble! = Most flare....that IS the magic spot
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northface28

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2004, 04:38:43 PM »
Dont you mean The NatureBoy Ric Flair? WOO!!!
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JohnP

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2004, 05:10:26 PM »
Plus40 -- Thanks for a sensible answer to my question.  Now, let's see if I've got this right.  For example, let's take a 5" pin with a label drilling layout.  When thrown, the ball is going to have minimal flare, then as the core comes down toward the 45 degree angle, the flare will increase until it passes through 45 degrees and heads toward horizontal, flare decreasing as it does.  Is this correct?  And if it is, are we right to say that the 3 3/8 pin position is the most flaring?  It's certainly the most flaring when the ball is released, but it loses flare quickly as it heads toward horizontal.  Whereas a ball with an intermediate pin (4 - 5") starts out with substantial flare, passes through maximum flare, then may or may not get the core to horizontal before it hits the pins, depending on ball speed, revs, etc.  Which leads to another question, is it better for a ball to be done with its flare before it hits the pins?  Or is it better for a ball to still be flaring with the core headed toward horizontal?  And I thought I was done with physics in 1966.  --  JohnP

a_ak57

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2004, 05:12:25 PM »
*hijack*

Ric Flare is still alive?!?  Things never cease to amaze me...

*unhijack*
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JohnP

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 10:58:58 PM »
Plus40 -- The light hasn't clicked on in my hard skull yet.  I've got the part about the angle of the track changing, that's easy to see looking at the oil tracks on the ball.  Are you saying that for a given layout, the amount of flare is equal for each revolution the ball makes?  And that that amount is greatest for a 3 3/8" pin position?  "The pin maintains the same distance from the track."  Is that true for all points on the track or only at the bowties? You've answered my main question, about the direction the ball flares, but I sure would like to understand these other details.  --  JohnP

channel surfer

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2004, 06:44:41 AM »
quote:

quote:
Correction. The actual weight block does not change angle due to flare. The pin maintains the same distance from the track.


i disagree.

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lane1lover

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2004, 07:48:36 AM »
the distance of flare should be determined by the diffential values and the pin distance towards the pap.  3 3/8 is the most distance you can get from the ball.

JohnP

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2004, 11:35:34 AM »
kotm -- Thanks for the reply.  I'm glad to hear this is a complicated subject, I'd hate to think I'm having this much trouble grasping a simple concept.  But if I can understand it, it will make me a better driller, which is what I'm looking for.  Back to some of my earlier thoughts.  First, are we all agreed that any pin position other than dead in the track migrates the core angle toward the horizontal position?  And that it is this core angle to the PAP/NAP "axle" that determines the total flare?  A pin position on the PAP would result in a 0 degree (horizontal) core angle.  And a pin position at 6 3/4" would result in a 90 degree (vertical) core angle, both in relation to the ball track.  It still seems to me that a ball with an intermediate pin position, such as 4 1/2", should have more total flare than one with a 3 3/8" pin position, since the 4 1/2" position results in an initial core angle of about 60 degrees which will then migrate through the 45 degree angle ("maximum" flare position) on its way towards horizontal.  And I've read some theories that say that the ball begins to flare even before it hits the lane surface, so that the 45 degree core angle layout may have been reduced before the ball has a chance to react from lane friction.  This agrees with an observation I've made that a bowler with a high track on a non-flaring ball has a lower initial oil ring when using a flaring ball.  I don't know if all this makes enough difference in ball reaction to worry about, but I would like to understand it.

"this is what some layout techniques (like Calhouns sweet spot) try to emulate in symmetrical cores."

I'm not familiar with Calhouns sweet spot.  Do you have any information on it you can send me or is there a web site where I could read up on it?  Thanks  --  JohnP


JohnP

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Re: Flare question
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2004, 10:05:01 PM »
MikeP -- The location of the first oil ring in relation to the fingers is dependent on the drilling layout.  If the pin location is in the safe zone, the bowtie will be above the fingers, and the first oil ring will be the one closest to both the thumb and the fingers.  The flare will be away from both the thumb and fingers.  If the pin location is below the safe zone, the bowtie will be below the fingers and the first oil ring will be the one closest to the thumb but furthest away from the fingers.  The flare will be away from the thumb but toward the fingers.  --  JohnP