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Author Topic: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?  (Read 6169 times)

duvallite

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Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« on: February 01, 2011, 08:54:55 AM »
For a while now, I've noticed that the flare rings on the various balls I throw are clipping the thumbhole a bit.  What would cause this?  As for layouts and my specs, my PAP is 4 1/2 over x 1/4 up, and the ball layouts are approximately pin under ring or beside ring.  As an example, one ball (pin beside ring) is high flaring and another (pin below ring) has tighter flares.  Can't recall right now what the others are like.  I don't remember having this issue previously.  Any ideas what's up?



 

Dave_in_Rio_Rancho

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 04:56:10 PM »
You are likely not clearing the thumb as early as you were before. I hit the thumb hole on my spare shots fairly frequently because I intentionally keep the thumb in late to straighten things out.



tenpinspro

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 02:50:41 AM »
Hey duvallite,
 
 
One of the more common ways is that your hand has turned too quickly to a suitcase (or even just slightly on the side) position in the swing which then makes you actually rotate your wrist back clockwise some causing the track to raise near the thumb hole (a weak or mild full roller release ).  Have you been on heavier oil lately or tried to create more turn? I've seen this as a common method for individuals as they tend to try and lift harder which causes for more clockwise wrist rotation as well.
 
Staying in the thumb hole longer does not always create a higher track.  It depends on the wrist motion, if we stay in the thumb but our hand is rotating clockwise (full roller release), it can raise it some.  If we stay in the thumb and rotate counter clockwise (handshake), this can cause a spin or lower track as it creates more of a topping motion.  Hope this helps some or feel free to pm me.


Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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(Congrats to  students Scott Boyle - 2011 Team USA Champion and Mike Fujita Jr  -  2010 Collegiate Masters Champion)
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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witesoxwoz22

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 05:10:41 PM »
I have been having the issue of clipping the thumb hole recently, and your suggestion of rotating back clockwise/"suitcase" as you call it is probably my issue.  What can I physically/mentally do to work through this.  Everything feels natural out of my hand, and I cannot seem to correct this.
tenpinspro wrote on 2/11/2011 3:50 AM:
Hey duvallite,
 
 
One of the more common ways is that your hand has turned too quickly to a suitcase (or even just slightly on the side) position in the swing which then makes you actually rotate your wrist back clockwise some causing the track to raise near the thumb hole (a weak or mild full roller release ).  Have you been on heavier oil lately or tried to create more turn? I've seen this as a common method for individuals as they tend to try and lift harder which causes for more clockwise wrist rotation as well.
 
Staying in the thumb hole longer does not always create a higher track.  It depends on the wrist motion, if we stay in the thumb but our hand is rotating clockwise (full roller release), it can raise it some.  If we stay in the thumb and rotate counter clockwise (handshake), this can cause a spin or lower track as it creates more of a topping motion.  Hope this helps some or feel free to pm me.


Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
(Congrats to  students Scott Boyle - 2011 Team USA Champion and Mike Fujita Jr  -  2010 Collegiate Masters Champion)
"El" Presidente of the Legion


- woz

duvallite

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 07:05:29 PM »
Rick,

 

I think you are probably right about the suitcase thing.  Our shot has been heavier than normal for the last couple of months or so, and the other house where I just started a month ago has an even heavier shot than my main house.  Consequently, I have had to move way right and either go straight up around 7-10 or actually point towards the pocket, because I'm having a harder time getting my ball to turn enough..  Been thinking about getting the Alpha Max or a VG to allow me to play the small swing I shot I prefer and still hadle the heavier shot, since my current selection of balls aren't cutting it (see my profile).  Any release tips to help break this "habit"?  Do you think either of those ball choices would be worthwhile?  Thanks.



tenpinspro

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 03:09:44 AM »
witesoxwoz22/duvallite,
 
The first problem that we encounter if our hand gets on the side of the ball (suitcase) too early in the swing, is from that particular position, in order to feel the pads of our fingers lift the ball, we either have to pull our arm across our body (which we don't want to do) or it is to lift back upright (or clockwise) through the ball which is more of  the norm that I see bowlers do.
 
 The second problem now is the amount of lift effort we're applying with this motion. Duvallite, (I hit the nail on the head with your situation - heavier oil) due to the lack of reaction on the heavier condition, we "all" try and lift harder.  Unfortunately, this also leads to more wrist rotation in that clockwise direction which again is what is causing the track to move towards thumb hole.  I'd say that on the normal conditions you had before, your normal or minimal wrist action created enough "reaction" or hook so you didn't have to try as hard to get the ball to hook. For you, I'd try and take the Mean Machine down to 600 first without having to buy another piece (unless this was your reason to get one) but if that doesn't work, the Invasion or Theory are a couple of my favorites right now for heavier oil. If you choose that route, pm me and I'll help offer a layout.
 
 witesox, one trick is to keep our hand behind the ball longer before trying to lift thru it.  If you can picture throwing a curve in baseball, our hand physically stays behind it until the ball/arm is in front of us and then at the point of release, we snap our wrist around the ball.  What would happen if our wrist was already on the side of the ball but we're only passing our head at that point? That's kind of what is happening now. 
 
 One last tip guys, if you're trying to get reaction because the condition is too heavy for the piece that you are using, try and move up on the approach some (maybe 6 inches to a foot if comfortable) and "naturally" slow your ball speed down so you have a better match of your speed to rev ratio.  This can help us get enough traction which in turn may give us the reaction needed, so then we wouldn't have to use additional lift effort to turn the ball which is that slight excessive wrist motion causing the higher track.  Just like slowing down in heavy rain or snow guys, if we can get traction, we can then get a reaction.  Sorry for the length but hope this helps some....


Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
(Congrats to  students Scott Boyle - 2011 Team USA Champion and Mike Fujita Jr  -  2010 Collegiate Masters Champion)
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Co-Founder - Tag Team Coaching
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2011, 03:30:43 PM »
Holy crap!  Rick is alive!


I stone 8s and 9s like its cool...

duvallite

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Re: Flare rings clipping thumbhole - how come?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2011, 06:36:54 PM »
Thanks for the tips, Rick.  The last two league nights I've concentrated on slowing down and staying behind the ball more, and especially on feeling the pressure on my fingertips.  Much better results with more backend, and decent scoring.  I need to really burn this into muscle memory (again).  Towards the end of the night, I would sometimes slip back into coming around the ball too early again, with sporadic bad results, not to mention flapping the dreaded "chicken wing", which is totally wrong and just looks really bad.  Thanks again, and glad to see you posting here again.