BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Hex017 on June 17, 2006, 02:57:35 PM
-
After working with my coach for a while we both figured out that my grip was not right. So I went to my driller, had my span shortened on everything and went from 1/16th reverse(I think?) to 1/8 forward in the thumb. It felt really good at first, so I had it done to everything. After bowling over 20 games this weekend though my thumb has given me some problems. I'm having some trouble getting out of the ball cleanly, I do spin the ball to a degree, and I tend to rub on the left side of my thumb exiting the ball(left, nail side up). Also, my thumb has started to blister and become really sore(20 games is not a lot for me btw), the ball feels like razors while hanging onto it. Maybe I should just have everything beveled a lot and sanded out, or maybe I should back off to 0 in the thumb? The only thing I do want to note is I left my plastic ball with the reverse and now I basically drop it, so I do see the effects of the forward pitch. Anyway, what do you think I should do?
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
I was definently grabbing it some by the end, all the rubbing and the "razor" like feel of the hole was very uncomfortable. I think I do have the death grip, which is why I want to change. Do you think a good amount of beveling can get rid of that razor like feel?
And I will take the advice about maybe notching the hole where the rubbing is.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
Work on sanding and/or beveling little by little. Once you go too far, you'll be dropping again. If you're knuckling, it sounds like the hole is too big. Get the thumb hole the right size with tape, then start beveling the problem areas. I know if I throw a bunch of games, my thumb shrinks. I have to add tape or I'll start squeezing the ball and have problems such as you describe. If everything feels good when you start, then worse as you go, maybe your thumb shrinks also and you haven't recognized it?
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
-
I don't think I knuckle the ball, I do have a knot on the back of my thumb from when I was younger but I don't tear or rub on the back anymore really, never any pain there. I can honestly say though that I don't think I've ever had a ball truely fit my hand correctly, which I why I am trying the changes now mid-summer, and looking for advice.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
I've gone from your typical reverse of 1/4 and one driller even previously wanted me to use as much as 1/2.
The changes to my grip from where i was to where i am now have been pretty extreme. I've gone from long spans at nearly 5 inches to less than 4 1/2.
I am probably throwing the ball the best i ever have, and i'm using a span of 4 1/4 cut to cut. I went from using one type of insert to no inserts back to inserts.
I've gone from no bevel to lots of it.
Change is always possible. Just remember where you came from.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
-
Ok so...my adventures with this forward pitch, here we go. I was actually wrong from the start, the thumb hole originally had 1/8 reverse in the thumb, with 1/4 to the right(to stop the blisters on the bottom right part of my thumb(bottom right, nail side up)). Went to 1/8 forward, no side pitch, out of 3 balls I did it to, only one came off my hand well, yet that ball blisters the bottom right part of my thumb. THE THING IS, my ball roll is excellent with the one ball I can get off my thumb with the 1/8 forward. I just couldn't deal with the blisters. So I went back to 1/16 reverse in the thumb, 3/16 pitch to the right, and ovaled the thumb hole for a more "custom" feel. Right back to the crappy ball roll, and the ball is not comfortable.
So I'm thinking I may go back to 1/8 forward, yet add 1/4 right and see what happens, but I have a good feeling I will hang/drag. I did purchase some 2000 grit sandpaper to sand the thumb out after I have a ball drilled, maybe that will allow me to get out without hanging. I'm starting to run out of ideas, any advice/help would be GREATLY appreciated.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
Definitely you needed the right pitch...keep that that will prevent the side blister on tip! 1/8 or 3/16 is probably fine.
Now as to the amount or lack of forward...try splitting the difference.
Go 0 forward reverse or 1/16 forward and then learn the Mo Pinel method of beveling.
Middle finger ONLY in ball...move thumb in and out. Bevel with bevel knife only on left side corner ifthere is any hang of thumb. Now once correct.
RIng finger ONLY in thumb! Now move thumb in and out and if any hang bevel under front of flat of thumb. Once clean in and out ...stop. Take some sandpaper(usually 100 or 80 grit for hand sanding of thumb holes) and smooth very gently....and sand between the possibly different amounts of bevel on the front and side!!!
Ahhhhh butter!
Now you've got it!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 6/24/2006 6:03 PM
-
Lefty what problems are you having with side and forward?
what is your present side pitching and forward? please clairfy
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
-
quote:
Definitely you needed the right pitch...keep that that will prevent the side blister on tip! 1/8 or 3/16 is probably fine.
Now as to the amount or lack of forward...try splitting the difference.
Go 0 forward reverse or 1/16 forward and then learn the Mo Pinel method of beveling.
Middle finger ONLY in ball...move thumb in and out. Bevel with bevel knife only on left side corner ifthere is any hang of thumb. Now once correct.
RIng finger ONLY in thumb! Now move thumb in and out and if any hang bevel under front of flat of thumb. Once clean in and out ...stop. Take some sandpaper(usually 100 or 80 grit for hand sanding of thumb holes) and smooth very gently....and sand between the possibly different amounts of bevel on the front and side!!!
Ahhhhh butter!
Now you've got it!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 6/24/2006 6:03 PM
I really like the feel of the 1/8 forward I currently have, its just odd that I had 2 balls I simply could not get out of with that 1/8, yet I have one that comes off very well, and allows me to stay under the ball very well. Even though my driller claimed they were all "the same". I think I will definently give this beveling technique a try, any in depth articles on this? Mo knows his stuff.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
You just got it from the only person I've seen write it down!
ME!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS..BUT I must give credit where credit due! I just wrote it...he thought it and taught it!
PPS Dude...I think you were asking HEX...but not sure?
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
-
oops yeah i ment hex, i need to stop reading this stuff at 4 am.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
-
Sorry I didn't clarify, currently I have one ball that is 1/8 forward, nothing to either side, and I have another ball that is 1/16 reverse, with 3/16 to the right, thumb hole is ovaled.
The ball with the reverse I "drop at my toe" and do nothing but spin it, however I dont blister, the ball with the forward comes off my hand MUCH better,much more roll, however it gives my blisters on the bottom right part of my thumb(bottom right, nail side up).
So honestly, I dont have any one ball that fits right now, although I prefer the ball with the forward pitch much more.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
I picked up on all of that and gave you what I thought might be a helpful answer in My reply.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS slight forward or 0....continue with right pitch to eliminate blister at tip/side of thumb. Proper bevel.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
-
Thanks for all the reponses so far everyone. Anyway, what I've done now is took a ball and stuck with the 1/8 forward, however, I went with 3/16 lateral to the right to help with the thumb irritation. Went out and threw the ball for about 3-4 games last night and threw my current good rolling ball(even though it does hurt after a while) and compared them.
Things that I notcied.
1. My new ball feels like razors again, so I'm going to have it beveled, and possibly sanded, even though there really isn't much hang except for in the front( you do all realize I spin the ball a tad with my wrist but it really is not enought to promote a lot of hang).
2. Comparing the two balls, the 0 lateral ball roll is much stronger off my hand which frustrates me. Today when I return to the shop and have the hole smoothed out hopefully that will allow my thumb a cleaner exit and better ball roll.
3. THis is a question for you guys. In the two balls I use different gripping materials, in my silver streak(0 lateral, good rolling ball) I use white vise oval grips in the fingers and a white thumb slug(not sure what brand). In my blaze(ball with the 1/8 forward and the 3/16 right) I use yellow vise oval grips but no thumb slug, the hole is just epoxy. Do you think that this could have something to do with the inconsistancies?
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
Going to a new driller tomorrow...we'll see what happens.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
-
Definitely use the same thumb slugs in each ball if you want to compare apples to apples. Also, know the difference between urethane and vinyl slugs. Urethane are slicker, vinyl coarser.
I would strongly suggest you have your driller install a switch grip system. This will allow you to experiment to your hearts content without redrilling each ball with what you THINK is the perfect pitch only to find out a few games later that it isn't. I went through years of redrilling a dozen balls at a time whenever I thought I'd come upon the perfect pitch combination. The fact is, what feels good now may not in a few days, weeks or months. The switch grip will allow you to drill just ONE inner sleeve (a removable thumb slug) that will fit in all your balls fitted with a switch grip outter sleeve. The beauty is that if you drill the hole in your ball to accomadate the outter sleeve at ZERO PITCH it will allow you to alter the inner sleeve pitches up to 1/4" lateral, foreward or reverse.
With the above stratagy you could drill several inner sleeves at different pitch combinations (as well as sizes) that can be used over and over again. I use 1/4 left and 1/4 reverse when I want to get out of the ball sooner with maximum axis tilt. I use 0/0 pitch for my normal shot and 0/1/4 forward on those days when I want to go straight through the ball and have my thumb come out a bit later (or to totally relax my arm swing).
The switch grip will save you money in the long run, reduce the need for tape and provide many options for tweaking your pitches (and even your span up to about 3/16ths of an inch).
One more thing, it's not unusual nor necessarily an indication of a poor fit or improper pitches to develop blisters initially (and I stress, initially). Give those sore spots a few days to heal and your thumb a chance to toughen up in the areas that are prone to friction. If blisters keep reappearing then, yes, your driller needs to adjust your pitches and/or span.
-
Just a little note about bevelling. I got a used ball that I wanted to use as is with as little alteration to it as possible. It had the reverse pitch to it, and I had the razor feeling that has been described. I had a fairly meaty base on my thumb, so I normally need that smoothed out anyway. I bevelled the front of the thumb hole to get rid of the sharp edge, and actually wound up taking off too much. I noticed when the "ramp" that I had formed at the front of the hole started folding over the skin on the base of my thumb during my release, and ripped a dime-sized circle of skin off the base of my thumb, almost into the palm.
So, basically, I'm trying to say the bevelling can only do so much before you need to change the pitch.
-
quote:
This conversation needs someone to explain how to hold onto a ball. Why don't one of you gurus explain the process of "setting the thumb" or
"fishhooking" the fingers. There is a method of "holding onto" the ball.
Can you explain the fishhooking the fingers in detail?
--------------------
Buck's going to be in the mix in '06!