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Author Topic: Going from Inserts to Clean holes  (Read 5504 times)

htotheizzo3561

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Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« on: January 21, 2012, 12:57:41 AM »
I have been using vacu inserts for years but am noticing that several of the top players in the area are now going to clean finger holes, for a more consistent feel.

 

Right now my fingers are 1/2 pitched left/right 0 up and down with a 1/4 inch bridge.

 

Should I try to copy this exact layout when switching to clean holes?

 

thanks

 


Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo

 

Impending Doom

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 09:40:42 AM »
 You might need to play with pitches at first. I've been gripless for about 14 years, and don't regret a thing. I would try a little reverse in your fingers, based on your flexibility. Any pro shop owner worth their salt here in Chicago should be able to help. Where do you get your stuff drilled?

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htotheizzo3561

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 09:52:13 AM »
thats the thing, I drill out of my friend's basement who bought some pro shop equipment.

 

Would adjusting the span, going shorter make it more comfortable?

 

I drilled one ball with clean fingers matcing my current specs and it became uncomfortable after a few games. This may be due to the new feel or is it because i should be increasing the bridge/other adjustements?

 

thanks again

 


Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo

DON DRAPER

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 10:29:13 AM »
This all boils down to feel.......it really doesn't matter if several of the top players in your area are doing it. Feel free to experiment on what works best for YOU.


Impending Doom

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 10:59:10 AM »
 With no inserts, your fingers will take a little more abuse at first. Grips are oval, holes are round. Its a fine tuning time you're in for. I had more of an adjustment period going from inserts to no inserts than I did going from bevel in the fingers to no bevel.

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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 11:32:32 AM »
Inserts or no inserts is not going to make you a better player.   It's simply a feel issue.   If it doesn't feel good, don't even bother trying to fine tune it.  Stick with your inserts.  


Impending Doom

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 12:14:17 PM »
No disrespect, but why would you tell someone to not bother changing anything? If it doesn't feel good right off the bat, throw the idea out? That's stupid thinking. All changes in grip need a little tweaking to get it right, then work to get to use to the change.  

Tweak, change, experiment, observe. I know a lot of high average guys that don't use grips around Chicago. I know lots of guys that do use grips. Is going gripless going to make you a Mike Nape? Probably not. Is continuing to use grips going to make you a Gregg Zicha? Probably not. But do right by yourself and try a change. Nothing is set in stone.

 

 
Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 1/21/2012 12:32 PM:Inserts or no inserts is not going to make you a better player.   It's simply a feel issue.   If it doesn't feel good, don't even bother trying to fine tune it.  Stick with your inserts.  



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RayRay310

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 12:32:16 PM »
 Consistant feel?..I find no grips to be inconsistant as far as feel from ball to ball..Also different balls felt different due to the different coverstocks..Also, if you use tape its hard to get that exact feel.


Stan

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 12:35:59 PM »
I've never used inserts.  One thing to consider is that inserts give you a tacky feel.  They keep you fingers securely in the ball.  With no inserts, you will get the feeling that your fingers are coming out faster.

 

I would try your normal pitches first and see how it affects your release.  Bowl like this for a while and then make any necessary adjustments.

 

I have been in the Pro Shop business for over 35 years.  Sometimes its too easy to try new ideas.  My point is, if you have a solid release right now, why try to mess it up.  If you feel your release could be better, then try something different.  Either way, good luck.



charlest

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 12:41:29 PM »
I think that change for the sake of change is counterproductive. If the OP has a problems with the inserts, seeking an alternative is always the safe path. If he just wants to try something different, there's no harm in that, as long as he recognizes the goal he is pursuing.
 
Since my fingers swell & shrink a lot, inserts were a godsend to me. It enabled me to stop playing with lots of little tiny pieces of white tape to adjust the size of the finger holes.  Just to see if I was missing something, I tried a ball with no finger inserts about 18 months ago. It turned into the same debacle as I described above. With inserts I just put in or remove small plastic or cardboard pre-cut pieces between the insert and the back of the hole, as needed.
 
I encounter no more inconsistency with inserts than I did with drilled holes, when I did use them. In fact, they're more consistent since I use the same brand and type in resin, urethane and polyester coverstocks, which all feel differently without the inserts..


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htotheizzo3561

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 12:42:49 PM »
Sounds like its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other.  the only issue with grips that i find is the wearability.  Its defenatly not the same feel from throwing the ball with 1 game used on the grips to 25 games bowled with em.  This is where i'm looking for someting that will be consistent from game to game.

 

Change in grips is not going to turn you into a great player like Nape or Zicha, but usually better bowlers have better ideas, hence i'm thinking about changing.


Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo

htotheizzo3561

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 12:50:22 PM »
Charlest, you hit the nail on the head! 

 

Would you think that clean holes would promote more of a no grab release however? I do find myself at times using excessive grip pressure which causes hang ups in the ball.


Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo

charlest

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 01:52:09 PM »
That excessive grip pressure may be what's wearing out your grips so quickly AND changing their feel. Also cleaning them out every so often with alcohol may help. You don't need to put a death's grip on them. Mine last a LOT longer than 25 games and I use the Contour Super-Soft yellow ones. 
 
Since I have no problem with the grips, I suspect that clean holes are not your problem. I believe your confidence in them is more of a problem. It may take more of a mental adjustment. Maybe you need to try another grip for a firmer feeling material. Some are much firmer than others, even within the same brand, I'd suggest trying a different brand before you try no grips at all. 
 
Make small changes first, then larger ones if the small ones don't work out.
 
htotheizzo3561 wrote on 1/21/2012 1:50 PM:
Charlest, you hit the nail on the head! 

 

Would you think that clean holes would promote more of a no grab release however? I do find myself at times using excessive grip pressure which causes hang ups in the ball.


Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo


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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 02:17:19 PM »
If you hit up on the ball, you hit up on the ball.  The grip/no grip issue will not change the hitting up on the ball.   People who have clean releases have that because they just have very good technique.
 
I find most people who do not use inserts to just be too lazy or cheap to replace the inserts, so they drill it no inserts.
 
Some people do like the sharper holes and have the type of skin to deal with that.
 
Your going to start to have to keep tape with you as well.  Since the holes do not "give" and your fingers will enlarge and shrink due to many factors.  You will probably need to tape the holes up.  You also might find during some stretches of weather  (cold) that the ball becomes very slick to hold onto.   Here again tape with texture will he helpful.   
 
If you have grip issues and you try to use no finger inserts and you do not bevel the holes enough your going to tear your fingers up quickly.   Grip pressure needs to be addressed before any changes are made. 
 
There are very top notch players who use inserts and some who do not use inserts.   Changing for the sake of seeing some bowlers that do something else is not always the best idea. 

 
Two players that come to mind.  Chris Barnes and Pete Weber.  No grip pressure at all, and they use inserts.  Top notch players.   Some other top notch players use no grips, Norm Duke for instance.     Bowlers try to be somebody they are not, instead of being just themselves.   Work with the feel that is best for you.
 
Normally if somebody comes to me and they want to try this, I try my best to talk them out of it.  Sometimes I refuse to drill it like that.   I'm not in business, so my only goal is to provide solutions that work best for the bowler. The answer "Well, just because I want to" or "Well, that other guy does that" doesn't fly with me.  I try to stay away from excessive "playing around" when it comes to the bowlers grip.  This leads bowlers into a whole lot of problems once they start experimenting with grip.   
 
If your span is correct, and pitches are correct you will not need to change anything in your grip when going from inserts to no inserts.   Since you talking about pitch changes and such, this leads me to believe your going to start to get into the "experimenting" phase.   Find a good pro shop and have them evaluate your fit before the experimenting.
 
 
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 1/21/2012 at 3:45 PM

RayRay310

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Re: Going from Inserts to Clean holes
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 02:48:08 PM »
 Charlest, like you my fingers shrink and swell like crazy. Last week I couldn't get my fingers in the ball this week they were perfect (nice and tight). I'm thinking og going up one size and maybe using small flat tile shims to aid with swelling and shrinking.