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Author Topic: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...  (Read 2656 times)

JessN16

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What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« on: April 26, 2008, 02:31:12 PM »
...even though the ball is hooking right-to-left and not backup? Because I've got a friend whose ball does just that.

He points the ball straight off the corner at the pocket. His first flare ring clips the ring finger hole and goes to the RIGHT of the thumb hole, as viewed from above with the ball on the table. He gets about 2.5 inches of flare. He seems to mostly get forward roll if you watch the ball travel down the lane (he has roughly zero tilt). This happens on all of his balls, regardless of drill, core/cover combo, etc.

I don't even know how to find a PAP on something like this, and he wants me to drill a ball for him. He has a problem with the ball hooking too early and can't seem to make the necessary adjustments to move in and play out towards the gutter. A real mystery.

Jess

Edited on 4/26/2008 10:31 PM
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 10:58:15 PM »
quote:
It's called an inverted full roller. The bowler generally over rotates to the point that there hand is on the side of the ball when they let go of it.I have actually drilled for a few guys that are like this. There PAP are around
7 3/4" over. I had one guy that was 8 1/2".
--------------------
Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling

www.BrunswickBowling.com
www.DBKMiniCamp.com


Let's say on an average symmetrical ball with a 3-inch pin (one of Roto Grip's planet-series balls, for instance), where do you recommend putting the pin and CG?

Also, just to make clear on something -- he is NOT tracking between the fingers and thumb hole. His track looks like a lefty hi-tracker.

Jess
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 11:15:29 PM »
quote:
Is he a high rev rate player? The guys that I drilled for were, so I always tried to lay it out to control the flare, as well as so the ball would flare away from the holes, similar to a full roller. The safest way I found to do this is place the pin below the mid line so the bow tie would be by the thumb and flare around the thumb and away from the ring finger.
On a normal 3/4 roll, the pin is placed, so the track flares to the around the middle finger and away from the thumb. With this type of roll, you want to invert the flare. This makes it flare away from the ring finger and around the thumb.
Hope this makes sense.
--------------------
Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling

www.BrunswickBowling.com
www.DBKMiniCamp.com


I think I understand. Basically, his drill patterns need to resemble a typical full-roller drill rather than a standard label drill, correct? Pin somewhere in the thumb-negative quadrant?

To answer your question, he's a speed-dominant player. He does not have a very consistent rev rate, either, which makes this process even more difficult (he is not a high-average bowler; he shoots in the 160s/170s). Sometimes he'll really rip on it, but whatever revs he generates is almost all forward roll.

Thanks for your help on this, by the way.

Jess

Edited on 4/26/2008 11:18 PM
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NJStroker

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 11:47:18 AM »
I think i know what's going on. He's releasing the ball too late so its after the low apex of his swing so instead of being tilted on the regular right hander's track side, its now on the other side of the holes.
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Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 06:16:07 PM »
quote:
No, you would not use a full roller layout. The pin should be below the midline on the positive side quadrant. If you were to do a normal label layout, the pin would end up close to being in the track. You need larger pin outs, also.

What someone needs to do is teach him how to release it properly and more consistantly.
--------------------
Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling

www.BrunswickBowling.com
www.DBKMiniCamp.com


No doubt. I've tried to work with him for a year. So have his other teammates. It just doesn't seem to take.

Part of it is injury-related; he has shoulder, elbow and wrist issues stemming from a vehicle wreck.

I've raised the suggestion of switching to lefty but that didn't go over well, either.

Jess
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 06:24:22 PM »
quote:
I think i know what's going on. He's releasing the ball too late so its after the low apex of his swing so instead of being tilted on the regular right hander's track side, its now on the other side of the holes.
--------------------
Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.


lol...sounds like you've seen him bowl in person. That's exactly what he does. Not only does he release it after the low apex of his swing, his swing does not move in a pendulum-shape.

This is what he does:

1) Starting position is waist high, body tilted to open the shoulder, left foot on the center dot and right foot a couple of dots left of that -- classic starting spot for most on a THS.

2) Takes the ball straight back with the backswing topping out just below waist level. Low backswing, but still in a classic position.

3) But when he begins the follow-through to the line, he does not come straight back through. Instead, he comes sidearm and throws the ball much like Dan Quisenberry or Kent Tekulve used to throw a baseball when they were still pitching in MLB. Once he reaches the high point of his backswing, the ball never goes much below that point ever again.

4) As he's coming around sidearm, he steps drastically to the right at the foul line. It's very much a baseball pitch motion. The ball exits off his hand at about waist level with his hand aligned about 4:30 instead of 6 o'clock.

5) He then flicks his wrist in some way to get the ball off his hand. The thumb exits at about 9:30 or 10 o'clock with the fingers coming out between 4 and 4:30.

He's a tremendously big, strong guy and he's already throwing 16 pounds. I think if he wanted to, he could throw the ball dead-sidearm or even overhand. It's the most jacked-up arm swing I've ever seen and it's a miracle he can even shoot 160-170.

Jess
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JShiff

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 07:04:09 PM »
With my blackwidow bite i thought mine was rollnig left handed. but i was just tracking really low with massive flare.
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wait what?
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novawagonmaster

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2008, 10:45:45 AM »
quote:
quote:
I think i know what's going on. He's releasing the ball too late so its after the low apex of his swing so instead of being tilted on the regular right hander's track side, its now on the other side of the holes.
--------------------
Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.


lol...sounds like you've seen him bowl in person. That's exactly what he does. Not only does he release it after the low apex of his swing, his swing does not move in a pendulum-shape.

This is what he does:

1) Starting position is waist high, body tilted to open the shoulder, left foot on the center dot and right foot a couple of dots left of that -- classic starting spot for most on a THS.

2) Takes the ball straight back with the backswing topping out just below waist level. Low backswing, but still in a classic position.

3) But when he begins the follow-through to the line, he does not come straight back through. Instead, he comes sidearm and throws the ball much like Dan Quisenberry or Kent Tekulve used to throw a baseball when they were still pitching in MLB. Once he reaches the high point of his backswing, the ball never goes much below that point ever again.

4) As he's coming around sidearm, he steps drastically to the right at the foul line. It's very much a baseball pitch motion. The ball exits off his hand at about waist level with his hand aligned about 4:30 instead of 6 o'clock.

5) He then flicks his wrist in some way to get the ball off his hand. The thumb exits at about 9:30 or 10 o'clock with the fingers coming out between 4 and 4:30.

He's a tremendously big, strong guy and he's already throwing 16 pounds. I think if he wanted to, he could throw the ball dead-sidearm or even overhand. It's the most jacked-up arm swing I've ever seen and it's a miracle he can even shoot 160-170.

Jess


I bowled with a guy last year who threw the ball like you describe. He was also a "large fellow". I never thought to look at his ball when it came back to see where he tracked. I would not be suprised to see something similar to what you describe. This guy averaged around 180. One of the strangest deliveries I have witnessed!
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Jon (in Ohio)
aka: Rico Swerve~

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nospareball

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2008, 12:03:45 PM »
From what you described it's easy to see why he's tracking on the wrong side of the ball.  Maybe a standard lefty drill would work since it would flare away from the fingers and thumb.  Not sure how that would make the ball react though.  And I guess you could find his pap as if he were a lefty, which in his case is actually his nap????
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2008, 12:27:51 PM »
quote:
From what you described it's easy to see why he's tracking on the wrong side of the ball.  Maybe a standard lefty drill would work since it would flare away from the fingers and thumb.  Not sure how that would make the ball react though.  And I guess you could find his pap as if he were a lefty, which in his case is actually his nap????
--------------------
-Clint


I've thought about that. We drilled up an old ball for him last week, just to experiment, and laid it out "lefty." Actually rolled pretty well for him.

Jess
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NJStroker

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 10:36:56 PM »
Just try to get him to release earlier. Theres a high school bowler that does that, thats how i know about it.
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Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.
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JessN16

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Re: What would cause a right-hander's ball to roll on the left-hander's side...
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2008, 12:03:17 AM »
quote:
Just try to get him to release earlier. Theres a high school bowler that does that, thats how i know about it.
--------------------
Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.


He and I are going to practice together soon and I'm going to try to help him with it. I gave him a list of the same exercises to do at home (strengthening and release practice on a pillow) that I was given when I changed over from using a wrist brace. Yes, he does release the ball very, very late.

Jess
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