A well respected bowling source told me yesterday that reverse finger pitch has absolutely no effect on revs.... I admit I was surprised... That's not what I remember hearing over and over and over.

Yes/no?

I have what some will say is a long span (5 5/8). I use zero pitch in the fingers, 1/2, 3/8, respectively side. I use 5/8 reverse in the thumb with 1/8 side pitch. (I've never used grips.)  I'm aware of only one bowler whose span is similar in length, former touring pro Don Genalo. His pitches are different than mine, namely a zero pitch in the thumb and 1/2 side pitch; he's never been mistaken for a high rev bowler.

My rev rate is between 400 and 428. In my case, I need reverse pitch in my thumb.  I've had ball drillers in the past who weren't used to span lengths like mine and drill my pieces as much as 3/8 short in span. I've also had ball drillers go with less than 1/2 reverse (like 3/8) in the thumb. In either case, not drilling my pieces correctly was uncomfortable, sometimes painful, and negatively affected my game because I couldn't get the ball cleanly off my hand.

Urethane Game said it best. A bowler who uses good mechanics and leverage can generate a good bit of rev rate based on their physical capabilities. It also helps when equipment is drilled to fit the bowler and it is comfortable for the bowler.

I find the discussion of reverse or forward of 0 forward/reverse always as fascinating.

In setting up the thumb pitch tables years ago Bill Taylor and others found that the best angle for thumb release for the average thumb, in flexibility, dryness, and length of thumb was 64 degrees.  This led to standard tables that said for that average thumb at 4 1/4 inch span that 64 degree angle was 0 forward reverse.

Variations in span for greater length than 4 1/4 resulted in that 64 degree angle being approximately maintained by adding 1/16 reverse for every addition of 1/8 of span.
Also the converse for spans shorter than 4 1/4, for every 1/8 shorter span start adding 1/16 forward.

Therefore for a big hand 5 5/8 Spencer Watts above(I've seen his big hands videos!)  an addition of 1 1/4 inch span translates into almost exactly 5/8 reverse.  This means Spencer and his big hands are at approximately 64 degrees!  In all reality for a a 1 3/8 increase in span he is slightly forward of that 64 degree angle.  But almost dead on!  Neutral one might say to the tables.  A 1/8 reverse position in a ball for Spencer Watts would be an extreme forward position in relation to his table recommendation(approx 64 degrees) of 11/16 reverse.

In my opinion all discussions of forward or reverse should be in relation to the tables. 

Of course the modern trend for top bowlers is a little more relaxed span and as a result a little more forward than the tables.  To increase holding power for the relaxed span!

Instead of "should I be forward or reverse" I believe the question should be, "should I be forward or reverse of the tables?".

Most people who move off the tables over 1/4 forward of an inch have to be very careful to add bevel under the front flat surface of the thumb to prevent the nerve damaging effects of these dramatic forward moves.  I have seen these drills and helped bowlers add bevel in this spot to reduce the dreaded black line and jolt of electricity pinch and numbness that can result.

Forward/Reverse = forward of what?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Luckylefty

great post LuckyLefty

I guess I can add that the source was Mike Jasnau and yes, I consider him well respected even though his opinion was different from mine and what I heard   

I guess I can add that the source was Mike Jasnau and yes, I consider him well respected even though his opinion was different from mine and what I heard   

I'm curious as to his argument. 

The OP states that he says it "has absolutely no effect on revs".

avabob really kind of hits on what I would surmise with data (225 UP to 280).  So what we're looking for is evidence that those finger pitches do/do not produce repeatable results with regard to effect (on revs).  It would seem different finger pitches would have SOME effect (the degree of which is certainly up for debate), no?

Just thought I'd throw this in:

Pitch changes to adjust ball roll . . .
This info is from a session with Mo Pinel and Del Warren. They do advocate pitch changes to adjust ball roll.

They start with what some here have called the "claw" grip. That is, a bowler's standard fit will include more forward pitches and a shorter span than has been the norm for many over the last few years. When the thumb is fully inserted and the fingers are laid across the holes, the edge of the hole/insert close to the thumb will be between the first and second crease/joint. They feel that a closed hand can remain more relaxed and still hold the ball without grabbing.

Once the "standard" fit is determined, adjustments can be made as follows (for right handed bowlers, lefties need to reverse the lateral adjustments) :

* To Increase Rev Rate - add 1/8 forward to both fingers and 1/8 reverse to thumb

* To Decrease Rev Rate - add 1/8 reverse to both fingers and 1/8 forward to thumb

* To Increase Axis Rotation and Tilt - add 1/8 left lateral to all three holes

* To Decrease Axis Rotation and Tilt - add 1/8 right lateral to all three holes

* To Increase Roll for low track players - Add 3/8 reverse to middle finger and increase middle finger span by 1/16. Add 3/8 forward to ring finger and shorten ring finger span by 1/16.

* To Increase Axis Rotation and Tilt for very high track players - Add 3/8 forward to middle finger and shorten span 1/16. Add 3/8 reverse to ring finger and lengthen span 1/16.

* Two or more adjustments may be combined for more dramatic results.