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Author Topic: Collier's Grip  (Read 8965 times)

nomanji

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Collier's Grip
« on: April 17, 2005, 03:58:21 AM »
I have been searching around and haven't seen articles re: Collier's grip.  When does one use Collier's grip? Is there a method on where to drill the thumb?  What are the advantages and disadvantages?  Thanks in advance.
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onlybowling

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 12:25:25 AM »
It is my understanding that the colliers grip describes placing the thumb directly in line opposite the middle finger.  I am not sure that there is an advantage or disadvantage.  The search for the thumb drill that is the right fit may be different for every bowler.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 01:03:37 AM »
all star bowling joe does it for almost every client.

Collier means offset thumb somewhat to the direction of the middle finger with the theory being that no ones thumb rests straight under the split between the middle and ring finger....except a chickens!

However the amount of the offset varies person to person and joe above is a good source if he's not tied up running his pro shop.

According to one of the great drilling gurus Bill Taylor he makes a convincing argument that there really is no offset grip because if you move the thumb as above one shortens the middle finger and lengthens the ring.  However if the thumb is drilled first the middle can be raised slightly and the ring shortened to keep spans correct.

The net effect of doing this change is now the fingers if pitched in releation to the standard T grip are now pitched in a direction slightly offset to the thumb.  One now has the chance to pitch the thumb now either straight up at the line that is parallel to the grip center that the thumb is offset to.  OR one can pitch the thumb back to the middle of the middle and ring finger.

I choose when I do it(I offset about 1/8 of an inch in a bunch of my stuff). To  orient my thumb pitch to the ring finger middle finger line.  This version has a formal name called CLT transfer and can be created in a different method but has the same effect(other method orients thumb under standard ring middle split and then points fingers off thumb).  OR the collier proper I believe orients the thumb pitch up towards the middle finger or at least parallel to the ring finger middle finger split line.

All said and done!  I feel that the slight offset method with the fingers oriented to the traditional center line does FEEL different than a traditional grip.  It feels different in that it makes it slightly more difficult to get the fingers around the thumb in the release(around meaning to the side) and slightly decreases axis rotation!  This without using lateral out thumb pitches.

For me this seems to be a good thing!

Also the true collier with the the thumb pitched towards the thumb center to middle finger line also feels different.  Me no likey!

Also the pure CLT (just reorient thumb pitches down finger pull line) also feels different.

Hopefully I've totally garbled this up!  (Just kidding)

REgards,

Luckylefty



Edited on 4/27/2005 0:59 AM
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TheDude

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 01:19:10 AM »
I'm a proshop guy and i got about half that.

I know about clt, you are dropping the ring finger, basically to get the person to hit more with the middle finger, creating more forward roll.

i've used level finger with no offset, and usually 1/16 to as much as 3/16 or 1/4.

for myself i hit the ball with both fingers, but i calus more on my ring finger than middle, on my middle i caluss on the top left side of it. the ring finger i caluss on the bottom side just behind the joint.

this is because i use a shortend span(well a shortend span is an understatement actually) my cut to cut span is 4 1/2 middle to thumb and 4 9/16 ring to thumb.

get this, I am 6feet 5 inches...so figure that out it looks like i would have a longer span....you'd be correct in guessing that. with a standard BT fitted grip i'd be something like 4 11/16 atleast with a stretched span 4 7/8.

Cutting my span down helped me enormously with axis rotation and being able to change axis rotation and tilt more easily. Also i never have a day when i feel like i have to pull my thumb back into the ball.


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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
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TheDude

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 01:26:47 AM »
Also with a longer span i had finger pain occasionally in my joints from some flexibility problems. i can probably fit a small marker pen under neath my span when in the ball. when i get my laptop back i will take some pictures with my webcam and post them.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 02:19:07 AM »
I thought I might garble someone up!

Actually not talking about shortening spans or pitches at all in above discussion, or shortening one finger in relation to the other for special effect.

Really two or three topics all getting back to the collier.

Collier is offseting thumb while leaving spans the same.  To leave span the same ring must be dropped down and middle moved up slightly.  Pitches of fingers are aimed and oriented down the traditional centerline.

CLT or center line transfer some say is a similar thing.  Everything is done in traditional T grip and then the fingers when put in ball are oriented for pitches down the pull line of the middle and ring fingers(usually a line pointing at the side of the thumb towards the ring finger side of the thumb).

Though the fingers pitches above in both methods are pointing to the side of the thumb under the ring finger both methods feel different...to me.

Three grips.  Traditional T grip, Collier(offset thumb), and CLT have been discussed.  All three spans have remained the same!

REgards,

Luckylefty

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TheDude

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 02:28:50 AM »
hey lefty will you be at bowl expo in orlando? i'd like to discuss this in person with you.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store

LuckyLefty

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 02:33:36 AM »
Sorry not in business but I do get to Florida.

I don't know when Bowl Expo is.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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TheDude

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 02:39:01 AM »
late june i can't remember have to check my tickets.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store

Doc Hollywood

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2005, 08:14:47 AM »
The collier grip is basically a major pitch shift in the thumb.  one of the best ways to layout the Collier is to lay the midline down and drill the finger holes side by side or the ring 1/16 to 1/8 lower.  Then using a metal ruler bisect the proper length of your middle and ring finger.  It should lay out the thumb about 3/8 of an inch or more offset toward the middle finger.

When drilling the thumb establish a new vertical line parallel to midline to drill off of.

I hope this helps.

By the way the ball does sit flatter in your palm.  It does make some bowlers come around the ball more.


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BackToBasics

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Re: Collier's Grip
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2005, 03:26:02 PM »
I was taught that a collier grip was the middle finger and thumb pitched off the same line and the ring finger was pitched off of a parallel line.  Spans were whatever your hand called for.  I used this grip for over 10 years until I started trying to get more tilt and less rotation.  This grip allowed the ball to sit more in the palm of my hand and I got tremendous roll with it.

Here's how I laid them out:
http://home.comcast.net/~anthonychapman/collier.JPG
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Anthony Chapman
Track International Staff
Turbo Grips 2-N-1 Staff

Edited on 4/29/2005 3:19 PM
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