win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Aggressive layouts that don't work  (Read 8610 times)

coasterp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Aggressive layouts that don't work
« on: February 22, 2010, 07:35:10 AM »
How many of you have set-up a ball with an aggressive layout and found it to be very tame? This subject came up tonight at the pro shop that drills my equipment. I was talking to my current driller and another bowler. The reason this subject came up, was because me and the other bowler both have been using a particular brand. He has set up his equipment to be aggressive and says he has been getting some very tame reactions. I on the other hand have set up a couple and have gotten very aggressive reactions. I then mentioned another ball that was drilled previously with a very strong layout. The ball actually turned out to be very tame even though it had one of the most aggressive covers and blocks made by that manufacturer at the time. Has this type of thing happened to any of you. Brands are not the issue here. The question is when you laid out a ball, did you get the reaction you were expecting?
Logged

 

elgavachon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2010, 05:56:31 PM »
ya this has happened to me. I've had several. So then I give them to my kid thinking maybe it was a bad batch,or finish or something,and my kid has extremely good reaction( he does plug them first).
Logged

Locke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1482
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 06:12:55 PM »
Very simple. If you put an aggressive layout on a strong ball and get a bad reaction that means it is burning up. So either you need more oil or put a weaker drilling on it.
--------------------
They call me the thread killer...

Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

The Cell Pimp
Logged
Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it.

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 06:30:44 PM »
Terminology is generally misinterpretted....strong as opposed to weak.

A stronger type layout is one that generally creates a larger amount of flare potential. A larger amount of track flare potential the larger amount of grip on the lane. This tends to create an earlier reaction or response which most if not ALL bowler's do not see. Now add a strong coverstock or greater amount of surface grit and you have a ball that starts in motion sooner. Hook is any deviation from a straight line. A stronger ball tends to see an earlier smoother overall reaction throughout the whole lane.
Most bowlers tend to only see reaction when it changes direction the last 20 ft or so...or where the friction is...
I have been laying out bowling balls for the last 20+ years on every level of competition. I cannot remember the last one I laid out closer than 4" to PAP or that close to leverage. Balls tend to flare on there own....
Most balls I lay out start at 4 1/2" to 6" to control flare. You can always add a weight hole and/or surface....
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Logged
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

dizzyfugu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7606
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 02:52:56 AM »
Another phenomenon I know is PAP shift. With the pin in the leverage position (or very close), a shift of the PAP or release inconsitencies can "reverse" the layout - instead of migrating towards the intended PSA (core "standing up" and stabilizing in an axis 90° to it), it can easily stabilize around the pin axis! The result is a much more rolly, evenly hooking ball that also tends to heat weak. I have seen this happen with three bowlers around - and it is hard to tell by yourself.

Best diagnosis is to have someone watch you from the positive side (or use a video camera) throwing the piece, and check if the pin moves towards the rotation axis. Pretty easy to see from this perspective, maybe put a tape on the pin if it is small or dark. It is a sign that drilling and release do not match up well, the pin is in a too strong position - and this is a problem that adds up to the formerly mentioned factors.

Ric's advice not to put the pin closer than 4" to the PAP is a very good and serious insight!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Logged
DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

coasterp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 06:03:03 AM »
Do any of you know of any good sources that describe what is taking place as a ball moves down the lane. I have found plenty that tell me how to layout a ball to obtain a certain reaction but I want to understand the dynamics of what is making that happen. I have put tape on my pin and watched it but still could not fully tell what was occurring. Having the above information, as well as knowing my game, should help me to fine tune layouts and better understand what is actually occurring when I don't get an expected result.
Logged

Juggernaut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • Former good bowler, now 3 games a week house hack.
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 10:49:34 AM »
I, as well, have had this experience. I wanted a particular ball from the time it appeared on the market, and finally got one.

 With much anticipation of this being my heavy oil ball, I drilled it stacked with about a 3 1/2 inch pin to pap and  about 4 1/2 mb to pap. Ball acted like POOP and wouldn't hit because I couldn't get it to the pocket.

 Plugged it and redrilled it with a 4 1/2 X 4 1/2 pattern. Still nothing, so I tried once more.  5 X 5 this time. The ball had a little motion, but still hooked very little and hit was virtually non-existant.

 Some of my friends tried it as well during this process, and the ball was quite good in their hands, but nothing I did on it worked. I finally just gave it to a female bowler who was looking for a 14lb ball and she LOVED it.

 Just a real bad matchup of cover and core for me though. Burned up for me no matter WHAT I did, and es, I even tried it with high gloss finish to try to make a medium shot ball, and that didn't work either.
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile

 ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Logged
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

elgavachon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Aggressive layouts that don't work
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 10:49:48 AM »
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »