Author Topic: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"? (Read 8467 times)

JessN16 · « **on:** January 10, 2009, 05:02:04 PM »

Unbelievable that I've run across this, but I've got not one, but TWO guys now on my league who are right-handers who track on the left-hander's side of the ball. Not a full roller, mind you -- I mean a nice, high three-quarters track but on the opposite side of the ball.

The only way my mind can make sense of this is if they are actually in negative axis tilt at the point of release, because both guys hook the ball. Is that what's happening here, or is it something else?

Jess

JustRico · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2009, 08:32:26 AM »

Generally when you see this, you have bowlers that over rotate the ball at release. Usually there hand is on the side of the ball, at release, similar to a full roller, but have more wrist cup and hit up on it. I have worked with more than a few bowlers with this PAP or roll. Their axis rotation is usually 90 degrees and their tilt is usually very high close to 0.
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Formerly BrunsRico

sunsetlefty · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:15:48 PM »

quote:
Generally when you see this, you have bowlers that over rotate the ball at release. Usually there hand is on the side of the ball, at release, similar to a full roller, but have more wrist cup and hit up on it. I have worked with more than a few bowlers with this PAP or roll. Their axis rotation is usually 90 degrees and their tilt is usually very high close to 0.
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Formerly BrunsRico

JustRico,

I have also seen this on one bowler (a female) recently. When you say that you have worked with more than a few bowlers with this PAP or roll, could you elaborate a little? Do you try to get them to change their release, or do you try to compensate for the release with a specific layout?

Thanks as always!
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Gary Palma
X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
PBA Member
2008 Hammer Staff Member

JustRico · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:31:58 PM »

Only one have I tried to alter their release and more times than not they are not comfortable changing so you try to use layouts.

The ones I have worked with have had high rev rates. Just a couple of them, their PAPs have been 7 3/4"> 3/4"^ and 8 1/2"< 1"^ (lefthander), so with these extremities, you have to control the flare, as with a full roller, as well as usually not be able to use a weight hole due to the amount of flare.

If you use the PAP, I have placed pins below the midlines to get the bow ties to migrate around the thumb-clockwise.

If you use the NAP, it would still be the same. You would need to have the flare migrate around the bottom of the thumb as well.

Basically you are eliminating the grip for the layout, i.e. pin to PAP distance to create reaction and then place the pin to avoid the grip.

More times than not, it takes experimenting.
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Formerly BrunsRico

JessN16 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:46:04 PM »

quote:
Only one have I tried to alter their release and more times than not they are not comfortable changing so you try to use layouts.

The ones I have worked with have had high rev rates. Just a couple of them, their PAPs have been 7 3/4"> 3/4"^ and 8 1/2"< 1"^ (lefthander), so with these extremities, you have to control the flare, as with a full roller, as well as usually not be able to use a weight hole due to the amount of flare.

If you use the PAP, I have placed pins below the midlines to get the bow ties to migrate around the thumb-clockwise.

If you use the NAP, it would still be the same. You would need to have the flare migrate around the bottom of the thumb as well.

Basically you are eliminating the grip for the layout, i.e. pin to PAP distance to create reaction and then place the pin to avoid the grip.

More times than not, it takes experimenting.
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Formerly BrunsRico

One of these guys is exactly as you describe at the top -- holds the ball on the side, hits up at release. The other one is fun to watch. His hand is directly BEHIND the ball at release, but he throws half-sidearm. Think of the motion used to skip a stone across a lake. That's the motion he uses to throw the ball. So his ball is "leaning" to the inside when it first touches the lane.

That second guy showed me stuff he's had drilled before. When his pins are placed around the ring, either above it or to the side of it, his initial flare ring is directly to the left-handers side of the ring and thumb, and then he flares back over the finger and thumb holes and most of his flare rings end up there, coming straight over the ball.

He was having trouble with the ball hooking too much. I had found a very good deal on a Roto Grip Mercury, which I knew to be less aggressive than his Columbia Icon and Hammer Blue Vibe, so we drilled that one. We put the pin over middle -- and that ball flares completely on the left-handers side of the ball. The further you move his pin toward the middle, the further the flare rings go away from it.

So basically, what we should be doing here is drilling the ball "upside-down," with the CG near the fingers and the pin near the thumb (if both markers ended up inside the grip)? Or are we talking about simply dropping everything down, with the pin ending up below the midline and the CG ending up below the thumb?

Also, how do you think a Girard layout would work for either of them (pin below thumb, CG above it)?

Jess

JustRico · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2009, 06:02:11 PM »

"So basically, what we should be doing here is drilling the ball "upside-down," with the CG near the fingers and the pin near the thumb (if both markers ended up inside the grip)? Or are we talking about simply dropping everything down, with the pin ending up below the midline and the CG ending up below the thumb?"

Either way as long as you can get them legal. The key generally is finding big enough pin outs with low tops.

"Also, how do you think a Girard layout would work for either of them (pin below thumb, CG above it)?"

Yes as this would be working off the NAP.

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Formerly BrunsRico

Author Topic: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"? (Read 8467 times)

JessN16

Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?

JustRico

Re: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?

sunsetlefty

Re: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?

JustRico

Re: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?

JessN16

Re: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?

JustRico

Re: Is there such a thing as "negative axis tilt"?