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Author Topic: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP  (Read 3329 times)

tdub36tjt

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Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« on: October 12, 2009, 04:47:48 AM »
Is the pin buffer actually more important to the final ball reaction than pin-to-PAP? I know you would get more difference from 5" pin-to-PAP than 1", but would you see more difference in a 1 1/2" pin buffer to 3 1/2" than you would in a 3 1/2" to 5" pin-to-PAP? Or is the pin buffer more just a minor ball reaction tweak?
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 01:21:44 PM »
You really cant have one without the other. In basic terms, the pin buffer will effect the response to friction. the pin to pap distance will effect flare
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J_w73

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 02:14:09 PM »
yes.. they go together like said.

you might get a 4" pin to pap with a 1" buffer to have the same reaction/look as a 5" pin to pap with a 3" buffer but I always like to set the pin to pap first and then the pin buffer..

pin to pap sets the core position and initial RG and rg differential and determines the amount of flare
pin buffer determines how tall vs wide(final differential and final rg ) the core is after drilling and the reaction and transition time to dry boards.


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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Edited on 10/12/2009 2:16 PM
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350 RPM, 17 MPH

charlest

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 03:07:32 PM »
quote:
You really cant have one without the other. In basic terms, the pin buffer will effect the response to friction. the pin to pap distance will effect flare
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

http://www.phxbowling.com/acba
http://www.viseinserts.com/


Nuff said!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JohnP

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 10:10:53 AM »
They do go together, but the pin to PAP distance is THE most important piece of the layout puzzle.  Pin to PAP sets the initial core angle and thus determines the percentage of the flare potential that is realized and also influences how early the ball rolls.  When laying out an asymmetrical ball pin to PAP is most important, followed by mass bias position, then by pin height or pin buffer - which are actually two ways of expressing the same thing.  --  JohnP
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Kid Jete

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 10:33:17 AM »
Dumb question but can someone explain pin buffer?
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JohnP

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 10:41:16 AM »
Pin buffer is the distance from the pin to the vertical axis line (VAL).  It is another way, used mainly by Storm, to set the pin height.  --  JohnP
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Kid Jete

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 10:43:38 AM »
quote:
Pin buffer is the distance from the pin to the vertical axis line (VAL).  It is another way, used mainly by Storm, to set the pin height.  --  JohnP


So the buffer is just the vertical distance of the pin from the center of your grip?
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JohnP

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 10:56:49 AM »
No, it's the distance from the PAP to the vertical axis line, which is the line drawn perpendicular to the grip's midline and through the PAP.  Pin height is the distance from the midline to the pin. The pictures in the layout sheets, link below, should help you visualize better.  --  JohnP

 http://ebonite.com/resources/drill_detail/symmetric_core_drilling_instructions/

http://www.stormbowling.com/drill-specs/key_drilling.pdf
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J_w73

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 12:13:40 PM »
and I want to say like I have said a ton of times with little response...
it isn't this "magic" distance of the pin to the VAL line (pin buffer) that actually creates the difference in reaction.. it is putting the core in a position so that the finger and thumb holes take weight out of a different area of the core that creates the reaction... pin buffer, val angle, or pin to VAL distance is just a way to describe where the pin is at in the layout.
Take weight out of the side of the core quicker more angular reaction..
take weight out of the top of the core slower smoother reaction..

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

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350 RPM, 17 MPH

tdub36tjt

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Re: Pin Buffer vs Pin-to-PAP
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 01:18:19 PM »
Okay I get it, thanks guys. Thats kinda what I figured just didn't know the specifics.
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