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Author Topic: Pin in Drillings???  (Read 1702 times)

imjouster

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Pin in Drillings???
« on: December 04, 2005, 11:50:25 AM »
Well since I can't find anything on this in the Archives...

I know I'm probably going to be hit with a bunch of like "why on earth would you even buy a pin-in ball, but what can I say, I've had really good luck with Pin-in balls overall, don't know why, just have.  I know that there aren't very many different drillings for pin-in stuff, but I have seen two distinctly different drillings.  one is CG in palm with pin just above it, sometimes to the left or right a bit.  The other one I have seen is with the CG just a little above and maybe an inch too the right of the Ring finger.  usually has the pin right above that.  Does it really matter how you drill a pin-in ball?  and if so, could somebody give me some info on how to drill one for early roll, late roll, late and snappy, late and even, etc.  Just curious.  thanks.

Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect,  that is afterall the only way to become perfect."

"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."


Taken from Desiderata


Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products

 

imjouster

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2005, 11:15:07 PM »
ttt
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect,  that is afterall the only way to become perfect."

"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."


Taken from Desiderata


Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products

stanski

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2005, 11:18:33 PM »
Pin in balls just make it more difficult for exotic layouts to be made legal, period. No difference whatsoever in a 5 inch pin or a 0 inch pin if the pin is placed in the same place and no balance hole is added (flame away cg lovers).
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stanski

imjouster

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2005, 11:46:11 PM »
ok so basically if I want it to go longer stick the pin over bridge, if I want it earlier stick it outside a bit and down, right?

Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect,  that is afterall the only way to become perfect."

"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."


Taken from Desiderata


Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products

dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2005, 01:20:48 AM »
Pin-in balls tend to be overall smoother, since their mass bias is not as pronounced as with pin-out balls. Pin out occurs because the core is shifted away from the axis through the pin upon pouring, so when you set up a ball, the more further away the CG marking is from the pin, the stronger the reaction will be. Asymmetrical balls just take this "physical" advantage to enforce the natural ball reaction.

I can tell that there can eb a huge reaction difference between a pin-in and a pin-out. I have a pin-in Trauma, and it is strong and smooth - drilled with the pin under the ring and with a balance hole. A friend's pin-out Trauma is way more flippy, even hard to handle. When I can still use my Trauma on medium-dry conditions my friend cannot use his ball anymore, because the breakpoint reaction is so strong.

Nevertheless, I'd suggest a pin-in ball for oilier conditions when you need a smooth ball bath or want to apply an early roll drilling. It matches well with what the ball is inteded to do. On the other side, if you want a flippy ball with more backend, 3+" pin-out is a good choice for a length drilling with dramatic backend. But it is not that pin distance dictates how the ball reacts - it is just a complement to the drilling and can support what you want the ball to do.

And despite of many who say otherwise - I am convicted that CG position matters. The more pin-out you have or asymmetrical RG differential, the more it will work. Check the inofficial FAQ section of this website (somewhere in the miscellaneous section), it contains some basic information about CG placement and what it does to the ball.
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DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany
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"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe


Edited on 12/5/2005 2:15 AM
DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

imjouster

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2005, 03:02:44 AM »
Thanks Dizzy, that helped quite a bit.  Basically what I'm doing is I'm being offered a NIB 15lb O Inferno.  its a pin in, bout 3/8 inch.  And I'm gonna try to make it more of a heavier oil ball, i'm not talking soup or anything like that, just something that will react when my Columbia Wired and Visionary Violet Gargoyle won't.  was planning on hitting it with Brunswicks Rough Buff polish to make it the same grit cover as an Absolute.  Still won't be as strong as an absolute but I think with my amount of hand I should be able to get it to work.  I have a really high track, so I try to keep the Pin above the bridge a lot of times, but on this one I may think about sticking the pin below fingers, either that or I'll stick it where I have the pin on my Columbia Rock (pin in too) and thats above and to the right of the ring finger.

Kind of funny that Rock was a VERY angular ball,  kind of surprising, but its right up there in angle with my Wired, which is a 5 inch pin drilled pin 1 1/2 - 2 inches above the bridge (about 4 inches above the midline) with the CG kicked out.  

The other pin-in ball I owned was a Columbia Wild (probably favorite ball ever).  and just like Dizzy was saying, it was a fairly even rolling ball.  drilled pin below bridge.  Kinda funny because I was told it would never amount to anything and it would hit like a marshmellow, 3 300s and 3 800s later, I think it worked just fine.
So is there any other opinions on Pin-in drillings?  and how do my choices on drilling the OI sound?  If you need any more info just check my profile, also open to doing some PMing if need be.  Thanks for all the help guys.

Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect,  that is afterall the only way to become perfect."

"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."


Taken from Desiderata


Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products

dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2005, 03:16:07 AM »
Pin-in, pin below ring and CG at 45° from PAP plus some surface on the ball should result in a smooth rolling ball. I have a Fuze Eliminator with such a lyout, and it is my go-to oil ball. Very smooth, predictable, and turns even on the thickest soup I encountered so far.
--------------------

DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany
Team "X": http://homepage.mac.com/timlinked/
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe
DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

stanski

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2005, 08:58:26 PM »
With a 3/8 inch pin, anything above the fingers will be very hard to make legal.

Dizzy, unless your balls were drilled identical with identical surfaces and no balance holes, there will be a difference.

Again, pin in balls and pin out balls do not react any differently until the pin is placed in a different position.
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stanski

JohnP

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Re: Pin in Drillings???
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 09:15:08 AM »
quote:
With a 3/8 inch pin, anything above the fingers will be very hard to make legal.


Depends on the beginning amount of top weight.  If you can find a pin-in ball with around 2 oz of top weight, you can get the extra finger weight down by drilling the thumb as shallow as possible and the fingers extra deep.  --  JohnP