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Author Topic: Holes touch  (Read 4537 times)

Bluff

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Holes touch
« on: January 04, 2010, 03:05:53 AM »
If the holes touch on thumb and a weight hole does that make the ball illegal ?

this was done on double thumb drilling with it in it. Should have gone 1 in drill instead of 1 1/8  
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J_w73

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 11:17:26 AM »
quote:
If the holes touch on thumb and a weight hole does that make the ball illegal ?

this was done on double thumb drilling with it in it. Should have gone 1 in drill instead of 1 1/8  
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."


The weight hole should have been angled away from the thumb hole.  As far as being illegal.. I'm not sure... Contact USBC.
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350 RPM, 17 MPH

Bluff

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 01:30:43 PM »
quote:
Agree with j_w. You'll need to contact USBC to determine whether the ball is legal. The hole should've been pitched away from the thumb, and probably drilled further away than you placed it.
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The below is a reply from Russell to mj bowler 76:

quote:
whatever people like you and stormbowler 83 need to take english classes,cause you dont understand anything.just like to argue like 10 yr olds as another poster AGREES WITH ME!!!!1


Step 1 - highlight above text

Step 2 - right click and select "copy"

Step 3 - Open up Microsoft Word

Step 4 - right click on blank page and select "paste"

Notice the green and red lines under your text?  It means you suck at English.



I did pitch away 3/4  with 1 1/2 from the edge of the iT but still touch and very small hole at bottom
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JohnP

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 02:35:32 PM »
Both to be sure it's legal and for the strength of the ball in that area, pour enough plug to cover the open area, assuming the ball will still be legal on static weights.  --  JohnP
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J_Mac

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 02:48:51 PM »
If you took that ball to Nationals you wouldn't be allowed to use it without the connection being plugged. I'm not sure if they allow it to be plugged after the initial inspection and used later.

Local shop I frequent has had a few bowlers come back in the past couple years with a similar situation.  I guess at the very least it's considered an over sized vent hole?
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Bluff

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 08:59:41 PM »
thanks
I got what I needed to know and it's ok to have touch at bottom as long as static weight is in spec.
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Stan

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 09:06:48 PM »
I agree.  A bowler on my team had the weight hole and the thumb touch on the bottom and USBC did not allow that ball to be used in the nationals.  He had to have the holes plugged at the bottom before thay allowed the ball to be used.
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J_Mac

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 02:23:53 PM »
quote:
thanks
I got what I needed to know and it's ok to have touch at bottom as long as static weight is in spec.
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."


At a local level no one will make a big stink about it.  Take it to Nationals though, and that's a different story.
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JohnP

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 09:48:19 PM »
The rule that governs a gripping hole and non-gripping hole that meet at the bottom is below, it's actually the vent hole rule.  Unless the balance hole in question is less than 1/4" in diameter the ball is illegal.  --  JohnP

Holes:
The following limitations shall govern the drilling of
holes in the ball:
1. Holes or indentations for gripping purposes shall not
exceed five (5) and shall be limited to one for each
finger and one for the thumb, all for the same hand.
The player is not required to use all the holes in any
specific delivery, but they must be able to demonstrate,
with the same hand, that each hole can be used
simultaneously for gripping purposes. Any hole that
cannot be reasonably shown to be used with a single
hand would be classified as a balance hole.
2. One hole for balance purposes not to exceed 1- 1/4
inches diameter. This hole may not exceed 1- ¼
inches at any point through the depth of the hole.
3. No more than one vent hole to each finger and/or
thumb hole not to exceed ¼ inch in diameter. USBC
considers a vent hole any non gripping hole that
intersects with a gripping hole at any depth. Any
hole intended for use as a balance hole that intersects
with a gripping hole will instantly be considered
a vent hole. This hole may not exceed ¼ inch
at any point throughout the depth of the hole.
4. One mill hole for inspection purposes not to exceed
5/8 inch in diameter and 1/8 inch in depth.
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JohnP

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 07:23:13 PM »
DB -- I understand, who does?  The only reason I was aware of that and the change in top weight on a thumbless ball is because I had an argument with someone else here on the thumbless ball weight and found out I was wrong because the rule was changed last April.

quote:
What's your read on a "fingers only" holes over the cg with a 7/8" weight balance hole.


If you're talking about static weight legality you may not even need the balance hole.  The side and finger/thumb weight limits are still 1 oz, but the top/bottom weight limit was changed last spring, and is now 3 oz.  If you're talking about performance, with a thumbless bowler who knows, it's mainly trial and error.  Pin to PAP distance is still the predominant layout factor.  

quote:
The following tolerances shall be permissible in the balance
of a bowling ball used in certified competition:
1. 10.01 pounds or more:
a. Not more than 3 ounces difference between top
half of the ball (finger hole side) and the bottom
half (side opposite the finger holes).
b. Not more than 1 ounce difference between the
sides to the right and left of the finger holes or
between the sides in front and back of the finger
holes.
c. A ball drilled without a thumb may not have more
than 3 ounces difference between the top half and
bottom half of the ball.
d. A ball drilled without any finger holes or indentations,
may not have more than 1 ounce difference
between any two halves of the ball.
e. A ball used without any hole or indentations
may not have more than 1 ounce difference between
any two halves of the ball.


quote:
Or a bowler who uses a thumbhole only to the first joint. A la "Smallwood". I have drilled for a guy who uses the "thumbhole" drilled to first joint for years. Always drilled fingers first then aleigned thumb to fingers. Strange layout, thumb and fingers almost in line. To be safe I always used the bridge as cg with a light TW ball. NO matter the info out there, there has been drills for use with a "first joint thumb" for years.


Here's a good one for you -- I've got a customer that uses a "half thumb" grip and throws a full roller!  And he swings the whole lane with it.  The first time I measured him, using my Jayhawk-style adjustable measuring ball, I put the right size thumb sleeve in its slot and the right size finger sleeves in theirs.  Then I started cranking on the span adjustments and told him to tell me when everything felt right.  When we got the holes in the positions he liked I started cranking on the lateral thumb pitch adjustment.  When it got to the limit for left lateral he asked if it could go any further.  I drill on a sidewinder, so when I drilled the thumbhole I set the left lateral as far as it would go, almost 1".  He loves the grip, says he never had a ball that really fit him before.  And it does look like the holes are almost in a line.  --  JohnP
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Bluff

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 08:47:20 PM »
quote:
DB -- I understand, who does?  The only reason I was aware of that and the change in top weight on a thumbless ball is because I had an argument with someone else here on the thumbless ball weight and found out I was wrong because the rule was changed last April.

quote:
What's your read on a "fingers only" holes over the cg with a 7/8" weight balance hole.


If you're talking about static weight legality you may not even need the balance hole.  The side and finger/thumb weight limits are still 1 oz, but the top/bottom weight limit was changed last spring, and is now 3 oz.  If you're talking about performance, with a thumbless bowler who knows, it's mainly trial and error.  Pin to PAP distance is still the predominant layout factor.  

quote:
The following tolerances shall be permissible in the balance
of a bowling ball used in certified competition:
1. 10.01 pounds or more:
a. Not more than 3 ounces difference between top
half of the ball (finger hole side) and the bottom
half (side opposite the finger holes).
b. Not more than 1 ounce difference between the
sides to the right and left of the finger holes or
between the sides in front and back of the finger
holes.
c. A ball drilled without a thumb may not have more
than 3 ounces difference between the top half and
bottom half of the ball.
d. A ball drilled without any finger holes or indentations,
may not have more than 1 ounce difference
between any two halves of the ball.
e. A ball used without any hole or indentations
may not have more than 1 ounce difference between
any two halves of the ball.


quote:
Or a bowler who uses a thumbhole only to the first joint. A la "Smallwood". I have drilled for a guy who uses the "thumbhole" drilled to first joint for years. Always drilled fingers first then aleigned thumb to fingers. Strange layout, thumb and fingers almost in line. To be safe I always used the bridge as cg with a light TW ball. NO matter the info out there, there has been drills for use with a "first joint thumb" for years.


Here's a good one for you -- I've got a customer that uses a "half thumb" grip and throws a full roller!  And he swings the whole lane with it.  The first time I measured him, using my Jayhawk-style adjustable measuring ball, I put the right size thumb sleeve in its slot and the right size finger sleeves in theirs.  Then I started cranking on the span adjustments and told him to tell me when everything felt right.  When we got the holes in the positions he liked I started cranking on the lateral thumb pitch adjustment.  When it got to the limit for left lateral he asked if it could go any further.  I drill on a sidewinder, so when I drilled the thumbhole I set the left lateral as far as it would go, almost 1".  He loves the grip, says he never had a ball that really fit him before.  And it does look like the holes are almost in a line.  --  JohnP


Yea thanks for the Info JohnP I have to go 1 in on next drill so I know how to fix it but I don't want plug a whole 1 1/8 and 1 5/16 the ball may cracked in half maybe take 3 times to be safe.
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Bluff

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2010, 08:48:46 PM »
quote:
JP.....sorry about that.    Don't study the rules enough to see the "odd stuff".

What's your read on a "fingers only" holes  over the cg with a 7/8" weight balance hole.

Or a bowler who uses a thumbhole only to the first joint.   A la "Smallwood".    I have drilled for a guy who uses the "thumbhole" drilled to first joint for years.    Always drilled fingers first then aleigned thumb to fingers.    Strange layout, thumb and fingers almost in line.   To be safe I always used the bridge as cg with a light TW ball.    NO matter the info out there, there has been drills for use with a "first joint thumb" for years.



as long they like it then is all good
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JohnP

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 09:33:00 AM »
quote:
Yea thanks for the Info JohnP I have to go 1 in on next drill so I know how to fix it but I don't want plug a whole 1 1/8 and 1 5/16 the ball may cracked in half maybe take 3 times to be safe.


No one is going to know they touch unless either you tell them or you take the ball to Nationals, where they'll find it and won't let you use it.  If you want to fix it, just pour enough plug to cover the area where the holes meet, don't plug the whole ball.  --  JohnP
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Stan

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 09:52:56 AM »
USBC just put in a section to clear up any confussion on thumbless bowlers.  The top weight limit has always been 3oz.  Did I miss something ?
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JohnP

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Re: Holes touch
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 09:56:52 AM »
No, you can see the way the old rule read, below.  USBC hasn't updated the link on their website so if you can find it there (I really had to look hard) this is what you'll find.  That may not have been what they meant, but it is what the rule said.  --  JohnP

 
quote:
Balance:
The following tolerances shall be permissible in the balance
of a bowling ball used in certified competition:
1. 10.01 pounds or more:
a. Not more than 3 ounces difference between top
half of the ball (finger hole side) and the bottom
half (side opposite the finger holes).
b. Not more than 1 ounce difference between the
sides to the right and left of the finger holes or
between the sides in front and back of the finger
holes.
c. A ball drilled without a thumb hole may not have
more than 1 ounce difference between any two
halves of the ball.
d. A ball drilled without any finger holes or indentations,
may not have more than 1 ounce difference
between any two halves of the ball.
e. A ball used without any hole or indentations
may not have more than 1 ounce difference between
any two halves of the ball.
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