Author Topic: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay... (Read 10709 times)

Ric Clint · « **on:** June 15, 2005, 05:42:30 PM »

This is probably old news, but I didn't get in and post on any of the "CG doesn't matter" threads a while back.

I know that the starting CG will change after the ball is drilled. And some will say that the CG only determines the static weights and the need for which to place a balance hole... but WHAT ABOUT CORE ORIENTATION

How can it be said that the CG doesn't matter? When the PIN and CG dictate the "angle" in which the core is laying inside the ball?

Some of you guys are saying that if 3 balls are drilled and all have the PIN in the same location say like 1/2" above the ring finger... but the 1st one has the CG at grip center, the 2nd has the CG 1.5" right of grip center, and the 3rd has CG about 3" right of grip center.............. and some of you are saying that the ball reaction will be the SAME and no one can tell the difference? YEAH RIGHT!!!

What about CORE ORIENTATION??? The above 3 drilling's have the core laying in different "angles", or directions... so how can the ball roll the same?

Someone please clear this up because I'm confused.

Edited on 6/16/2005 1:41 AM

charlest · « **Reply #46 on:** June 18, 2005, 03:08:22 PM »

quote:
Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but if I'm not mistaken, the cg is marked so that you know which side of the ball to drill on. If you only had a pin for reference, you could easily drill it on the opposite side. You need two reference points to know the orientation of the core within the ball.

Jim King

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but Brunswick has already "proven" the CG position does not even need to be marked. If that is true, of what importance is the core angle/orientation?
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Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, in bowling you only have to get close ...

CharlesT

stanski · « **Reply #47 on:** June 18, 2005, 03:19:21 PM »

quote:
Ill play a little more Devil's Advocate, IF, and this is a big IF, IF Brunswick believes that core shape doesnt matter, but only the #'s, why do they continue making diff. cores instead of just changing proportions, sizes, and densities of materials used.
--------------------
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site is www.lane1bowling.com

Its called advertising, most people believe that core shape matters, so they will give the people what they want.

You need to mark the cg so that you will have an estimate of static weights (to keep the ball within legal limits).
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stanski

Ric Clint · « **Reply #48 on:** June 19, 2005, 02:15:32 AM »

quote:
So in a Brunswick bowling ball, the amount of so-called core orientation is extremely minimal, as is the significance of Cg's, top weight and static weights.

Ric Hamlin,

Are you saying that Top Weight ALSO doesn't matter either? I've always been under the assumption that higher top weight makes the ball go longer and store up energy and lower top weight makes the ball roll earlier?

So have your studies showed that Top Weight doesn't matter either?

charlest · « **Reply #49 on:** June 19, 2005, 03:58:21 AM »

quote:
I think what he's basically trying to say is that static weights don't matter.
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I'm officially a ball junkie

Yes.

If PBA bowlers, who are extremely consistent in their ball speed and their release, cannot tell the difference, how can average bowlers like we are tell the difference? There are so many other more significant factors invovled, that we should pay attention to those and not even mention finished weights, except to know they are legal.
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Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, in bowling you only have to get close ...

CharlesT

Mustang Guy · « **Reply #50 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:29:19 AM »

I had been asked to comment here. I usually don't come over here, only because this is a true opinion section. Ball drilling in it self has been handed down from person to person where people create their own ideas.

My opinion is this:

CGs don't matter and they do. They matter because they are located on the ball. If they didn't matter why would manufacturers mark them?

When it comes to ball reaction their role is so small that it is insignificant. In symmetrical cores I'd give CG's and balance holes a total of 5% of the overall balls reaction. If you placed the pin at 4" and the cg in three different locations, the human eye would barely see a difference in reaction. Maybe on different conditions and playing different parts of the lane. Now if the PIN was in 3 different positions, the human eye could see the difference. On the C.A.T.S., data would show a slight difference, but not enough to spend so much time discussing.

In asymmetrical balls it means more because it is usually tied in close to the MB. Where if you move the MB in 3 different locations (which also moves the CG usually), you'd be able to see a change in ball reaction.

No matter what, chance the surface of the ball and you will see a change in ball reaction no matter what drilling.

Pin out
Pin in
High top
Low top

Yes they all have a small play in the overall balls reaction, but that is they key word...small.

As said in some of the previous posts, Brunswick has done some extensive testing on this matter for bowlers. Trust that the information they provided is true and correct for their products. It is probably true and correct for most products also, but I'd still like to believe that has newer technology comes out, things change.

Thanks,

--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Office Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com

For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

a_ak57 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 20, 2005, 11:05:31 AM »

quote:
CGs don't matter and they do. They matter because they are located on the ball. If they didn't matter why would manufacturers mark them?

When it comes to ball reaction their role is so small that it is insignificant. In symmetrical cores I'd give CG's and balance holes a total of 5% of the overall balls reaction. If you placed the pin at 4" and the cg in three different locations, the human eye would barely see a difference in reaction. Maybe on different conditions and playing different parts of the lane. Now if the PIN was in 3 different positions, the human eye could see the difference. On the C.A.T.S., data would show a slight difference, but not enough to spend so much time discussing.
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Office Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com

For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Roger, good post. I think that part there is key.
--------------------
- Andy

Brunswick...........'nuff said.

Ric Clint · « **Reply #52 on:** June 29, 2005, 06:53:57 PM »

Here's a statement from MoRich regarding if CG matters or not. This was taken from the article, "MoRich Stance on the Proposed USBC Ball Specification Change".

quote:
"MoRich, as well as many other manufacturers, has proven that CG location has a minimal effect, if any, on ball reaction (refer to the video on the Brunswick website). The CG does not represent any particular portion of the core. Therefore, it does not affect core axis angle. The CG is merely the heavy spot and will not affect ball reaction. We have been teaching and explaining this to pro shops for 8 years."

Edited on 6/29/2005 6:49 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #53 on:** July 05, 2005, 06:48:47 AM »

Core axis angle however from quote above appears to be important to Morich balls.

Have we been using the wrong term when in the past we said Core orientation.

Core axis angle....sounds good.

May try that while trying to impress my wife around the dinner table.

Core ...Axis .....Angle....hmmmmm, new and better lingo!

REgards,

Luckylefty

channel surfer · « **Reply #54 on:** July 05, 2005, 03:25:48 PM »

Everything matters when it comes to drilling. Some things have more of an effect, somethings have less of an efect. But to say that CG has no purpose is absurd. CG does matter, espically in symmetrical bowling balls. In asymmetrical balls, the mass bias plays a much larger portion. But CG still needs attention when drilling.
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shelley · « **Reply #55 on:** July 05, 2005, 03:45:54 PM »

quote:
but WHAT ABOUT CORE ORIENTATION

How can it be said that the CG doesn't matter? When the PIN and CG dictate the "angle" in which the core is laying inside the ball?

The orientation of the core changes by fractions of a degree with various pin distances. A few 64ths of an inch is enough to create medium-large pin lengths. position of the CG does not significantly alter the orientation of the core, not enough to really measure given the variability in shots. A variation of 1/16 or 1/8 of an inch in PAP location probably would swamp the difference in core orientation. You can barely be certain of your PAP at that precision.

SH

Author Topic: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay... (Read 10709 times)

Ric Clint

So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

charlest

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

stanski

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

Ric Clint

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

charlest

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

Mustang Guy

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

a_ak57

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

Ric Clint

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

LuckyLefty

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

channel surfer

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...

shelley

Re: So CG's don't matter, huh? Okay...