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Author Topic: How to Measure For Rico Layout  (Read 7895 times)

ccrider

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How to Measure For Rico Layout
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:26:12 PM »
Anyone seen a video on how to measure and layout the Rico layout.
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ccrider

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2010, 10:04:57 AM »
Yea, my Pap is 6 over and 3/4 up. Not quite straight over but close enough.
quote:
Most of what I've always read, and the way I drill it is 45deg off my PAP. Which is straight across and makes it rather convenient.
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JustRico

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 10:09:03 AM »
Not sure where any of you read this but it has ALWAYS been 45 degrees off the center of the grip. There are always variations of everything.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rico&printable=yes
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ccrider

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 10:19:50 AM »
JustRico,

It is in the language in the link that you have in your post:

"To layout for Rico, the pin is placed in the bowler's center of grip, and the ball is layed out "45 degree" or with the CG layed out in a 45 degree angle in accordance with the bowler's positive axis point."
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JohnP

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 10:25:43 AM »
quote:
To layout for Rico, the pin is placed in the bowler's center of grip, and the ball is layed out "45 degree" or with the CG layed out in a 45 degree angle in accordance with the bowler's positive axis point.


Ric -- I think the question is -- is the 45* angle measured between the pin and the centerline or between the PAP and the pin.  I've heard it both ways. Your post, copied and pasted above, makes it clear that the 45* is PAP to pin to balance hole, NOT 45* from the centerline to the balance hole.  Thanks.  --  JohnP

ccrider

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2010, 10:48:35 AM »
John,

That is the question.

Also, other than trial and error, is there a method to make this measurement. I usually just spin the ball until I get it right. Works but time consuming.

Thanks

CC
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JohnP

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 11:28:28 AM »
ccrider -- I was hoping someone else would respond to your question, because I've never actually layed out a Rico.  But I think I know how to do it, and will post that and invite others, more experienced with the layout, to make comments and corrections.

First I would determine where I want the balance hole to be located.  As an example, let's use a PAP located 5 1/4" across and 1" up.  For an asymmetric ball the MB should be located 6 3/4" from the pin, and that's where you want the balance hole.  For a symmetrical ball, first locate the true cg on your dodo scale.  The balance hole will be located 6 3/4" from the pin on the line from the pin through the cg.  Now, on either ball, draw the line from the balance hole location through the pin.  Then draw a line 45* from that line, also through the pin.  The PAP will be located on that 45* line.  I see two ways to get the exact PAP location.  One way - on another ball, draw in the centerline and midline for the grip to be used, locate the PAP on the ball and measure the distance from grip center.  Then go to your Rico ball and measure that distance from the pin on the 45* line you drew, that will be the PAP location.  The other way - Draw an arc, radius of the horizontal PAP component (5 1/4" in our case), and centered on the pin (which is also grip center).  Use your ProSect to locate the point on the 45* line that is the vertical PAP component (1" in our case) from a point tangent to the arc and perpendicular to the 45* line.  That will be your PAP location.  When you have the PAP located, proceed as usual with the layout.  When you drill the balance hole, start out with a 3 1/2" deep hole with a diameter that will bring the statics to legal.  Throw the ball and adjust the diameter if so desired to get a better reaction.  

Hope this makes sense.  --  JohnP

ccrider

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2010, 04:38:53 PM »
Thanks John,

Makes sense. I use the scale to measure side weights/top weights but have never used it to check cg. I do have an AMF tape that explains how to do it.

CC
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sunsetlefty

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2010, 04:56:33 PM »
Draw an arc, radius of the horizontal PAP component (5 1/4" in our case), and centered on the pin (which is also grip center). Use your ProSect to locate the point on the 45* line that is the vertical PAP component (1" in our case) from a point tangent to the arc and perpendicular to the 45* line. That will be your PAP location. When you have the PAP located, proceed as usual with the layout. When you drill the balance hole, start out with a 3 1/2" deep hole with a diameter that will bring the statics to legal. Throw the ball and adjust the diameter if so desired to get a better reaction.

JohnP, good explanation. That is how I do it....
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JohnP

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 07:26:18 PM »
I've thought about it a little more.  The method I described will get you very close, but not exact.  The vertical PAP component line will be perpendicular to the midline, not the 45* line.  To get it exact, draw the arc around the PAP.  Then set your compass for the horizontal PAP component (5 1/4" for our example).  Locate the point where the pencil of your compass intersects the arc around the PAP and mark it.  Now go to the pin and draw the line from the pin to that point, that line will be your midline.  --  JohnP

TheFreeAgent

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2010, 01:25:22 PM »
Why is everybody makeing this so hard? draw a line from the pin straight down through the CG making a mark 6 3/4 inches so you know where your weight hole goes.

Then put the 0 degrees from your t-square ( i forgot the name of it) and make a mark at 45 degrees.

Draw a line from the mark through the pin annd make the pin your COG and boom your done. No PAP needed no secret spinning the ball  its that simple.
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BowlingChat

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2010, 01:39:34 PM »
quote:
Why is everybody making this so hard?


Because for a some people on this website, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Use our wiki page, made by Ric, and you'll get the desired result.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php/Rico
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Pat Patterson

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2010, 11:02:34 PM »
45* in relationship to your PAP:
http://www.brunsnick.com/images/ricolayout.jpg

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Miffy1980

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2010, 01:24:40 AM »
so its not rico if there is no balance hole?

the articles dont mention abt asym having their mass bias marks drilled out, how convenient. any comments on that? my pro shop has a beat up BWsting i would like to experiment with..at the expense of my wallet of course. its asym thus the reason im asking.

next, regarding the weight hole. how wide and how deep? if say keeping it legal is not the concern here. any reference on that?

i believe its CG/MB line 45* to your pin to pap line from reading the articles provided in earlier posts

here is how i would do it.

1. draw line connecting pin to CG/MB and call it "pin-CG/MB line"
2. using pro sect draw a line 45* to pin-CG/MB line and call it "pin-pap line"
3. mark your x axis component on the "pin-pap line" for me its 4 1/2
4. using the y axis component of your pap as radius, draw a circle on the pap.for me its 1 inch.
5. draw a line from pin to tangent of the circle and call it "tangent line"
6. on the pin, draw a line perpendicular to "tangent line" can that would be your mid line.
7. punch up accordingly

wat u guys think?

ccrider

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2010, 11:53:47 AM »
Bingo. You win the prize. This is how I ended up doing it. Just have not had time write out the steps.

CC

quote:
so its not rico if there is no balance hole?

the articles dont mention abt asym having their mass bias marks drilled out, how convenient. any comments on that? my pro shop has a beat up BWsting i would like to experiment with..at the expense of my wallet of course. its asym thus the reason im asking.

next, regarding the weight hole. how wide and how deep? if say keeping it legal is not the concern here. any reference on that?

i believe its CG/MB line 45* to your pin to pap line from reading the articles provided in earlier posts

here is how i would do it.

1. draw line connecting pin to CG/MB and call it "pin-CG/MB line"
2. using pro sect draw a line 45* to pin-CG/MB line and call it "pin-pap line"
3. mark your x axis component on the "pin-pap line" for me its 4 1/2
4. using the y axis component of your pap as radius, draw a circle on the pap.for me its 1 inch.
5. draw a line from pin to tangent of the circle and call it "tangent line"
6. on the pin, draw a line perpendicular to "tangent line" can that would be your mid line.
7. punch up accordingly

wat u guys think?

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Miffy1980

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Re: How to Measure For Rico Layout
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2010, 12:50:32 PM »
so crider, could u keep us posted on the weight hole? u going to experiment around with it right, like start with small dia, see how it goes and go larger and deeper?