Post by: ccrider on April 23, 2010, 02:26:12 PM
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Post by: Doug Sterner on April 23, 2010, 10:45:21 PM
No PAP measurements or anything special needed.
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Post by: nocarey on April 23, 2010, 10:56:04 PM
descriptions and layout picture
http://brunsnick.com/rico_ball_layout.html
http://brunsnick.com/images/ricolayout.jpg
Edited on 4/23/2010 10:57 PM
Post by: ccrider on April 24, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
you are right, that is simple. I thought cg needed to be 45* angle from pap.
quote:
It's pretty easy.....the pin goes at your grip center and the cg is placed at a 45* angle into the thumb positive quadrant.
No PAP measurements or anything special needed.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: JustRico on April 24, 2010, 02:01:35 PM
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: yeehayashi on April 24, 2010, 02:16:29 PM
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Post by: Lillen on April 24, 2010, 02:50:30 PM
quote:
I don''t believe in drilling out PIN''s or PSA''s, but some folks do. Instead, I choose to measure 1 1/8" towards the PIN from the PSA and put the X-hole there. This will alter the measurement to 5 5/8" from the PIN!
I did this on a Columbia Apogee and it looked like this:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/Nellil/15%20Pounders/Apogee02.jpg
Nice rolling ball..
Don''t use it anymore though, gone down to 14 lbs..
Might plug my Kinetic and put the Rico layout on it...
Edited on 4/24/2010 2:53 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 24, 2010, 10:43:37 PM
If using an asymmetrical ball and do not want to drill out the mass bias locator then you can move it closer to the pin so the MB mark is still visible.
Placing the weighthole 6-3/4" from the pin creates a significant alteration to the ball reaction.
What I have found is that the RICO layout enhances the natural tendency of the ball it is used on. The layout makes rolly balls rollier and snappy balls snappier.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Post by: JustRico on April 24, 2010, 10:57:41 PM
This is the best explanation for the layout.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rico&printable=yes
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: ccrider on April 26, 2010, 05:01:14 PM
What does this mean. Is the 45 degrees from the midline or from the PAP.
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Those that can do. Those that can''t complain. Pimpin ain''t easy, but it''s mandatory.
Most things we like, we don''t need. Most things we need, we don''t like. Don''t confuse your likes with your needs.
Edited on 4/26/2010 5:17 PM
Post by: azus on April 26, 2010, 05:05:42 PM
quote:
Justrico: what's your opinion on using this layout on a symmetrical or asymmetrical ball?
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Spence Hayashi
I belive the Rico layout is used to make an asymetrical ball act like a symetrical.
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Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on April 26, 2010, 05:31:05 PM
Place it directly under FAQ and label it "F2OAQ" for "far too often asked questions". It also helps to utilize the search function. I know there's not a ton of vids for this but there's got to be one somewhere. www.brunsnick.com has the Classic Zone with a detailed pic of the layout buried in the vid.
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Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on April 26, 2010, 05:34:20 PM
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Return with your shield or on it. Strength and honor. Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. MTIXE
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
Post by: ccrider on April 27, 2010, 09:24:53 AM
No offense taken and you are probably correct. I have Brunsnick's site as one of my favorites as there is much useful info there.
The one thing that has never been clear to me regarding the Rico layout is whether the 45* is the angle from the PAP or from the midline. There is a difference between the two. I have always assumed it is from the PAP, but some of the post above indicates differently.
quote:
ccrider, please don't take this as a slam against you. It jusst seems to get brought up an awful lot and I think it should be something that's placed in a permanent link under "drillings & layouts".
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Return with your shield or on it. Strength and honor. Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. MTIXE
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 27, 2010, 09:59:59 AM
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
Post by: ccrider on April 27, 2010, 10:04:57 AM
quote:
Most of what I've always read, and the way I drill it is 45deg off my PAP. Which is straight across and makes it rather convenient.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: JustRico on April 27, 2010, 10:09:03 AM
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rico&printable=yes
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: ccrider on April 27, 2010, 10:19:50 AM
It is in the language in the link that you have in your post:
"To layout for Rico, the pin is placed in the bowler's center of grip, and the ball is layed out "45 degree" or with the CG layed out in a 45 degree angle in accordance with the bowler's positive axis point."
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: JohnP on April 27, 2010, 10:25:43 AM
quote:
To layout for Rico, the pin is placed in the bowler's center of grip, and the ball is layed out "45 degree" or with the CG layed out in a 45 degree angle in accordance with the bowler's positive axis point.
Ric -- I think the question is -- is the 45* angle measured between the pin and the centerline or between the PAP and the pin. I've heard it both ways. Your post, copied and pasted above, makes it clear that the 45* is PAP to pin to balance hole, NOT 45* from the centerline to the balance hole. Thanks. -- JohnP
Post by: ccrider on April 27, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
That is the question.
Also, other than trial and error, is there a method to make this measurement. I usually just spin the ball until I get it right. Works but time consuming.
Thanks
CC
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: JohnP on April 28, 2010, 11:28:28 AM
First I would determine where I want the balance hole to be located. As an example, let's use a PAP located 5 1/4" across and 1" up. For an asymmetric ball the MB should be located 6 3/4" from the pin, and that's where you want the balance hole. For a symmetrical ball, first locate the true cg on your dodo scale. The balance hole will be located 6 3/4" from the pin on the line from the pin through the cg. Now, on either ball, draw the line from the balance hole location through the pin. Then draw a line 45* from that line, also through the pin. The PAP will be located on that 45* line. I see two ways to get the exact PAP location. One way - on another ball, draw in the centerline and midline for the grip to be used, locate the PAP on the ball and measure the distance from grip center. Then go to your Rico ball and measure that distance from the pin on the 45* line you drew, that will be the PAP location. The other way - Draw an arc, radius of the horizontal PAP component (5 1/4" in our case), and centered on the pin (which is also grip center). Use your ProSect to locate the point on the 45* line that is the vertical PAP component (1" in our case) from a point tangent to the arc and perpendicular to the 45* line. That will be your PAP location. When you have the PAP located, proceed as usual with the layout. When you drill the balance hole, start out with a 3 1/2" deep hole with a diameter that will bring the statics to legal. Throw the ball and adjust the diameter if so desired to get a better reaction.
Hope this makes sense. -- JohnP
Post by: ccrider on April 28, 2010, 04:38:53 PM
Makes sense. I use the scale to measure side weights/top weights but have never used it to check cg. I do have an AMF tape that explains how to do it.
CC
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: sunsetlefty on April 28, 2010, 04:56:33 PM
JohnP, good explanation. That is how I do it....
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Post by: JohnP on April 28, 2010, 07:26:18 PM
Post by: TheFreeAgent on May 01, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
Then put the 0 degrees from your t-square ( i forgot the name of it) and make a mark at 45 degrees.
Draw a line from the mark through the pin annd make the pin your COG and boom your done. No PAP needed no secret spinning the ball its that simple.
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Post by: BowlingChat on May 01, 2010, 01:39:34 PM
quote:
Why is everybody making this so hard?
Because for a some people on this website, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Use our wiki page, made by Ric, and you'll get the desired result.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php/Rico
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Post by: Pat Patterson on May 10, 2010, 11:02:34 PM
http://www.brunsnick.com/images/ricolayout.jpg
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Pat Patterson
Post by: Miffy1980 on May 11, 2010, 01:24:40 AM
the articles dont mention abt asym having their mass bias marks drilled out, how convenient. any comments on that? my pro shop has a beat up BWsting i would like to experiment with..at the expense of my wallet of course. its asym thus the reason im asking.
next, regarding the weight hole. how wide and how deep? if say keeping it legal is not the concern here. any reference on that?
i believe its CG/MB line 45* to your pin to pap line from reading the articles provided in earlier posts
here is how i would do it.
1. draw line connecting pin to CG/MB and call it "pin-CG/MB line"
2. using pro sect draw a line 45* to pin-CG/MB line and call it "pin-pap line"
3. mark your x axis component on the "pin-pap line" for me its 4 1/2
4. using the y axis component of your pap as radius, draw a circle on the pap.for me its 1 inch.
5. draw a line from pin to tangent of the circle and call it "tangent line"
6. on the pin, draw a line perpendicular to "tangent line" can that would be your mid line.
7. punch up accordingly
wat u guys think?
Post by: ccrider on May 11, 2010, 11:53:47 AM
CC
quote:
so its not rico if there is no balance hole?
the articles dont mention abt asym having their mass bias marks drilled out, how convenient. any comments on that? my pro shop has a beat up BWsting i would like to experiment with..at the expense of my wallet of course. its asym thus the reason im asking.
next, regarding the weight hole. how wide and how deep? if say keeping it legal is not the concern here. any reference on that?
i believe its CG/MB line 45* to your pin to pap line from reading the articles provided in earlier posts
here is how i would do it.
1. draw line connecting pin to CG/MB and call it "pin-CG/MB line"
2. using pro sect draw a line 45* to pin-CG/MB line and call it "pin-pap line"
3. mark your x axis component on the "pin-pap line" for me its 4 1/2
4. using the y axis component of your pap as radius, draw a circle on the pap.for me its 1 inch.
5. draw a line from pin to tangent of the circle and call it "tangent line"
6. on the pin, draw a line perpendicular to "tangent line" can that would be your mid line.
7. punch up accordingly
wat u guys think?
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: Miffy1980 on May 11, 2010, 12:50:32 PM
Post by: Adrenaline on May 11, 2010, 04:59:07 PM
So I took the liberty of doing a full write up, that literally holds your hand through the layout, because I know that's the way I need things explained to me, so that I can fully grasp them, and it comes complete with pictures (kind of) to illustrate everything going on.
Hope this helps, if I made a mistake anywhere please let me know, I'll do my best to correct the issue.
Here's the link: http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=259323&ForumID=18&CategoryID=5
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