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Author Topic: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....  (Read 3456 times)

pjr300

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Background: I do OK locally, average is aver 225 in my local league. I am more of a straiger player. Do add more challenges, I am starting to bowl more tournamants. Bowled a major state event yesterday, one with the best bowlers in the state. There's a few guys with great resumes in the events, including PBA titles, regional titles, local hall of fame, and so on. Anyway, it's a six game block, moving two pairs after each game.

The oil was longer than I expected. I started trying a dull 1000g asymetric ball (pin above ring, MB right of thumb) over about 11, but all it did was weakly tip toward the pocket. I then went with a strong un-pearl ball (brought down to 2000g, 4x4 stack) and it did the same, but a little stronger. If the ball was sent right, forget it.... washout.

I gutted out about 600 for the first three games (hurt my lower back in practice, which made things even more of a chore). The next two games were about 180, as the lower back loosened up, but spasms with extreme pain started to hit my upper back.

The last game i did something different.... I pulled out my Black Widow Pearl (4x4 stack), moved left to 15, went just a little softer with my release, and sent it to 10 at 40 feet. Went strike-split-packed the next 10 for 268.

This game twisted my conventional thinking about balls!  All my life I had been taught "dull balls direct" for long oil, especially for a hand-chalenged dude like me. Using a pearl -- especially the BWP, which is known for length -- seemed to make no sense. But, there I was, flushing and pounding the pocket.

I had been thinking about doing a ball with a loyout like Steve Jaros (pin under ring, MB long) as I see how well he bowls on longer shots despite not having a lot of hand. But maybe my thinking is backwards. Is the key really this -- to use a ball this will have midlane roll on oil, so that it will turn left and create angle once it hits the dry back ends?

Signed, confused...

Shot about 1210, and missed the cut by 60. Considering that I missed a 7 pin, 8 pin, 3 pin, and threw a 1 count-spare after a strike (and followed it with three flush strikes), I didn't feel too bad, especially considering the back stiffness and pain. I badly beat a lot of 230+ average guys.

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scotts33

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 10:09:52 AM »
pjr300,

It's more about the lane condition and playing it correctly with the correct equipment.  You played it wrong to start possibly.  Hurting yourself didn't help either.  Generally, I'd play longer flatter patterns inside to much OB outside unless you can find some thing on the twig.


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Dan Belcher

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 12:50:46 PM »
If you can get a pearl ball to "pop" enough on the backend, you can throw them on longer patterns.  If you have enough oil that the pearl can't turn the corner, throw a duller ball and get the ball to roll early and set into the pocket.  Too dull of a finish will give you troubles just like too shiny of a finish will give you problems.  I was able to use a Total NV sanded to 1500 grit on the Shark and Scorpion patterns with more success than a 500-1000 Special Agent, for example, because it saved the energy better and gave me more entry angle on the back of the lane.

charlest

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2007, 05:27:04 PM »
I agree with the previous repliers. YOu might have been on long but lighter oil and those very dull or very strong balls MIGHT have been burning up in the midlane or even the heads. Even with slower speed, the BW pearl is still only for medium oil for most people. If that hooked even with slower speed AND softer revs, my bet is you had light (or medium, at most) oil but long oil.
(Still, long oil can be more difficult than heavier oil)
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chitown

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 10:21:26 AM »
Here's a reply I made in the Hammer forum last month and it may be of some help.

 Posted: 10/29/2007 3:23 PM        
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If your bowling on a heavy oil shot then you need a duller surface on the ball.

If the pattern is long you want to have your break point close to the pocket and won't need that xtra hook on the back end.

The Anger can handle heavy oil with ease at a lower surface grit. I guarantee that!

If your looking for another ball for the pattern you talk about, then consider another Anger, drilled stronger and the surface brought down to 500 or 1000 grit. I have yet to bring the cover on my Anger down past the 2000 grit oob. It's so strong that 2000 grit seems to be enough for every heavier pattern i've come across.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and give you an idea that goes against the grain. There have been times when i've bowled on a long heavier pattern that had real dry back ends. I used my Toxic on a condition like this with great results. The TOXIC is pearl and get's great length but has a very strong flip reaction when it hits the dry boards down lane. This may be the ball your looking for? I know this sounds strange to use a pearl ball for heavy long oil but think about it this way. On Heavier oil the key is to get a ball to get into it's roll early. This way the ball/core will set up when it hit's the pocket. Certain balls won't have time to set up on the longer patterns and will produce weak pocket hits and or won't hook enough. A skid flip type of ball will set up in the shortest amount of distance. So if your looking for a ball that will turn over and GO, the TOXIC will do that great.

I would also consider using a stronger pin placement with a balance hole. The stronger pin placement will give you more flare and the balance hole will help it rev faster.

So instead of using the 5.5" from your pap got to 4".

I hope this helps.

If you have "strike pass" Take a look at the Dick Weber open from last season. You will see Walter Ray using a Mo Rich Ravage on a 44'pattern. The ball doesn't read the mid-lane at all but flips on the back end. I believe the pattern was stripped as well. This is why I choose a ball that would not read the mid-lane but would react great on the back end. This is the same principle i'm talking about with the TOXIC.

pjr300

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2007, 04:14:13 PM »

Chitown and everyone, thx for the responses! Geat stuff.

And this was really long oil.... as I mentioned, it made a lot of really good house bowlers look very bad.

I've always thought about more surface when I approached these conditions.... but this experience really chnaged my head. I would not have expected success with the same ball that I use for medium to medium broken down conditions. But once it to the back end, it turned left and smashed.

So really, I need to think of a "long oil" arsonal for tourneys. Sounds like I still need something dull (like an Anger) and maybe something that will snap when it hits the dry but has some midlane (No Mercy?) so it will be ready to start up when it hits the backend.

I also need to modify my release in these situations. A bit softer, more inside out with some belly, instead of so much up the back.

Am I on the right track?


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Cobalt Bomb

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2007, 04:54:01 PM »
As to a ball choice, I would try a Gamebreaker. It is early and continuous. Won't have to empty your bank account to buy it either. I also agree with others as to the pin distance from the axis of 4" or so.
However, as to the release, usually on longer or heavier oil, you want to be mostly up the back of the ball to get it in a roll sooner.

Joe

pjr300

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007, 01:00:48 PM »

Thanks guys! I'm thinking of a Gamebreaker -- which is a 4000g cover with the old V2 core -- drilled with a low pin position, and MB in a strong location.

Do you think that's be a good choice for longer patters?  

I've been told the Anger may be a good bet, as well as a No Mercy, but I'm unsure on them.  

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pjr300
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Cobalt Bomb

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2007, 01:08:34 PM »
Gamebreaker is symmetric (no marked mb) and is 2000 abralon box finish. The layout you describe would give you an early read and reaction.

chitown

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2007, 10:04:50 AM »
quote:

Chitown and everyone, thx for the responses! Geat stuff.

And this was really long oil.... as I mentioned, it made a lot of really good house bowlers look very bad.

I've always thought about more surface when I approached these conditions.... but this experience really changed my head. I would not have expected success with the same ball that I use for medium to medium broken down conditions. But once it to the back end, it turned left and smashed.

So really, I need to think of a "long oil" arsenal for tourneys. Sounds like I still need something dull (like an Anger) and maybe something that will snap when it hits the dry but has some midlane (No Mercy?) so it will be ready to start up when it hits the backend.

I also need to modify my release in these situations. A bit softer, more inside out with some belly, instead of so much up the back.

Am I on the right track?


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pjr300
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I think it's wise to approach long oil in two ways.  

First the normal approach is to use a "heavy oil" ball that has a dull surface.  

Second, is to use a very strong skid snap pearl ball that has very little mid-lane.  I know that's not the norm for long oil but the key for the second approach is to have the ball glide thru the heads, mid-lane and just snap when it hits the friction at the end of the pattern.  You need to be accurate with this approach but it can yield some very good results.  Go onto the PBA web site and order strike pass.  Cycle thru the vids and watch the Dick Weber open from last season.  You will see WRW using a Mo Rich Ravage and it's polished.  This ball has zero mid-lane read on the long pattern their playing on.  Yet the ball hit's the friction and set's up immediately.  


The NM or Anger would be a great choice for the heavy oil(dull ball).  If your looking for the skid-snap and no mid-lane type of ball for your 2nd option, the TOXIC is a great choice.  The TOXIC has very little mid-lane but really grabs and goes when it hit's friction.  Basically look for a reactive pearl with a very strong response to fricition for the 2nd option.

Hope this helps.

I've heard some good things about the Gamebreaker.  That may be a good ball to look into.


Edited on 11/24/2007 11:06 AM

pjr300

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2007, 08:05:10 PM »

Thanks Chitown. The "no midlane, skid-snap pearl" approach sounds like exactly what I got from the BWP.  Now I need the dull ball that will roll up early.... probably need to get that Anger. I has a NM and it was quite a fussy ball. However, its backend was huge. Maybe I should retrieve it. Hmmmm.....


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chitown

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Re: I am totally confused on layoyts and surface prep for longer oil....
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 10:07:47 PM »
quote:

Thanks Chitown. The "no midlane, skid-snap pearl" approach sounds like exactly what I got from the BWP.  Now I need the dull ball that will roll up early.... probably need to get that Anger. I has a NM and it was quite a fussy ball. However, its backend was huge. Maybe I should retrieve it. Hmmmm.....


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pjr300
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I have both the Anger and NM.  Both balls can work well on heavy oil but they do it in different ways.  Both balls have a strong mid-lane but the NM has more back end.  The Anger seems to have a touch more mid-lane and smooth on the back end.

I don't pick one over the other when i'm on a long heavy pattern.  I practice with both and see which one gives me the best look.  I just bowled on a long pattern this past weekend at league.  NOT a walled up house pattern with friction outside.  I had my best look with my NM.  I tried both balls but the NM seemed to give me much better carry during practice because of the stronger back end.  So I stuck with that ball and did very well.

If you have a NM I would try that first before you buy a new ball.