Have a look at these past comments.
BT
Buzzhead,
I have a .pdf file that explains how to lay out a CLT perfectly. If you would like it, or if anyone else would like it, drop me an email at the email address below.
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Jer Migonis
Email: Angstfilled@angelfire.com
DIRECT shortcut to a PDF file. Instructions on drilling CLT:
http://www.neon-auto-lights.com/temp/CLTdrillinginstructions.pdfBT
I noticed one thing on the document. the picture of him marking the line between the fingers.I don't think that is much of a an angle. depending on your span and hand, that angle could be much more. I know mine is.
as a personal observation. I think a CLt is ideal for a nice relaxed span. It allows maximun contact of the palm on the ball. this has to create stability and lesson the tension of twisting your thumb to face the finger pads.
Any crankers try this?
My guess is that strokers and tweeners would like this better. I would think power crankers with the cupped wrist and extreme hand action actually need the tension in the hand to help there releases. Now some slow crankers may favor a CLT because they can roll it off there hand better.
I am more of a tweener and I love the fit. MY .02c
The PDF document seem to take a regular T- grip ball then take the measurements to transfer over to CLT on a new ball. i had a viper drilled up CLT and we drilled the thumb hole first, then i placed my hand in the ball, and he drew a line between my fingers, then traced it down to the right of the thumb hole (RH). Then he laid out my fingers using spans from a ball that I knew fit well. The ball fits more relaxed. I did experiment and I put 1/16" Forward pitch on the fingers because I figured the more relaxed grip would give me the sensation of falling out of the ball. It works nice.
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
I think some are confusing two different concepts.
CLT, fingers drilled in regular Tgrip. Fingers are drilled and pitches for fingers are oriented off of a line (as drawn by Tenpinitis) that is angled in relation to Tgrip center and this line runs down the players space between ring and middle finger. The Thumb which is drilled first is oriented to the standard Tgrip line between middle and ring finger.
Thumb offset(yes towards index unless your thumb hangs on pinky side of hand, ha ha ha ha!) Moves thumb towards being under middle finger and all pitches are oriented to a lines parallel to the T line grip. Effect is, CLT pitches in fingers and a new orientation and pitch in thumb if same pitches entered used for parallel line drilling of thumbhole. Depending, fingers may end up with different spans if one does not adjust finger lengths and just moves thumb under middle finger. If that is done middle will be shorter, ring will be longer.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Just recently finished driving 3000 miles,
to beautiful upstate NY and back.
I told my girlfriend I wanted to go with her!
Yeah, Sort of! But also it was a trek, to find ball drillers who did Center Line transfer. (I've got my priorities straight! right?).
In search of Brian Omara who drills for the Dick Ritger schools in Ithaca NY but I just had such a booked schedule that even though he made time for me I had to fit in a 6:00 am meeting with a guy named Joe Moore at AMF Williamsburg bowl. (Nice guy, obviously very hard working, and his shop name is Bowling Techniques).
Joe, I'd heard was also an expert in CLT. He said I had a hand that was very appropriate for it. (Over 5 degrees of twist off the center line).
I am 15 degrees.
Here's why if you haven't heard it. A couple years ago I was doing pretty good in my first year of bowling. I was using a very stretched spans. Since then I went to a more normal span for my hand! Since then here's what my ball sounds like on the lane, bump, bump! Not good!
The pitches I used to use on the stretched span no longer look right.
0 forward and back for some reason makes me look all krinkled up in the
fingers. Reverse pitch seems to end up with me losing the ball too quick and losing one of the strengths of my bowling, the ball staying what looks like and feels like forever on my fingers. Giving me lots of last second control of the ball. (A PBA friend of mine calls it my Earl Anthony release, very flattering).
Joe took a lot of time analyzing my hand and explaining his whole method.
Very impressive and a very impressive shop!
To make this long story end. The effect of turning the ball and drilling the spans in the direction that your fingers pull is very interesting.
I now seem to be able to hold on to the ball like I did when I had a very long span. I'm using 0 forward reverse again but my fingers no longer look krinkled all up like they had with the traditional drilling method and 0 reverse.
T GOD (who I respect) and Brian Omara have gotten in to quite a debate over whehter the CLT is really just another set of pitches. Here is my observation.
The pitches if measured in relation to the traditional method of pointing straight back to your thumb are different. For example(remember on lefty),
Joe had me listed for my middle finger as 5/8 right and 0 forward/reverse.
This drilled along with the ball turned 15 degrees. IF measured in relation to the traditional method back to the thumb the pitches on the middle finger are more like 1/2 and 3/16 forward. The middle finger drilled at 1/4 left and 0 forward/reverse ends up if measured back to the thumb at 5/16 left and 1/16 reverse.
Note if measure along a 15 degree line tilted to the right the pitches are as drilled. If measured back to the thumb along the traditional center line they are different.
My conclusion. They really are a different set of pitches! However to calculate them would be doable but difficult and actually can be done more easily by just by spinning the table or ball the 15 degrees necessary for me.
Final, First impression is it works! My PBA buddy said as soon as he saw me.
Great! You've got your Earl Anthony(obviously an exageration) release back! The balls over the foul line,, the sound of the ball is no longer bump bump but shhhhhhh!
If you are having problems like I described try CLT!
REgards,
Luckylefty
To contact Brian Omara, message on this forum, to contact Joe Moore at bowling techniques call 757 564-9240
PS I tried this on a Voodoo when I got home see my review!
Edited on 8/12/2002 8:20 AM
Doug Sterner
Posted: 6/8/2003 8:27 PM Let me see if I can answer your questions....
1. Would you lay the ball out on the centerline of the thumb or the centerline of the fingers?
lay the ball out as normal, drill thumb first. then insert thumb into hole and lay your fingers out so they are where they would be according to your layout. Take a layout pencil and draw a line between your fingers. This becomes your new centerline to drill the fingers.
2. Should I make the thumbhole tight and oval it after completion of the drill?
make your normal thumbhole
3. Will the pitches of the fingers change?
use the same pitches you always did to drill the fingers. will they change? no. If you then measure the pitches off the original centerline, they will be different but don;t do anything different when drilling.
4. Will the pitches on the thumb change?
no
5. Span stays the same right?
yes
6. Has anyone tried a sarge easter drill with this?
no
7. If there is ANYTHING I missed please let me know...
not that I can think of
8. Will there be a pap shift when I drill this??
I did not see any
Good luck!!!!
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
www.dougsproshop.netThink about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!
The reason for a CLT is to put the pads of your fingers in full contact the with the ball. This is accomplished by creating the new centerline between the middle and ring fingers as your hand sits in the thumbhole with your fingers stretched out in the area where the finger holes will be drilled.
Most of the time the new centerline ends up in line with the right edge of a RH bowlers thumb hole.
You can initially lay it out off the finger centerline if you want....drill fingers first and then kick the thumb out but it is much easier to do it the way I describe. You achieve the same results.
If I could understand what you are confused about, I could help you.
I went to the CLO grip a while ago to get more of my hand in contact with the ball and found I needed an extra 1/8" span on my ring finger (full span was 4-7/8", now 5" - my joints are quite flexible). I changed the finger pitches to match and left the thumb pitches as they were (1/4" reverse, 0 lateral on the T-grip orientation) - Bad move. I needed to open the thumb holes up more than usual to get any consistancy with my release and that SEEMED OK, but if the hole was a good fit the ball regularly hung on my thumb. I recently changed the pitches to 7/16" reverse and 7/16" left (T-grip orientation - right handed). What a difference! I expected the ball to fall off my thumb but this just didn't happen, and it is so much more comfortable.
Hope this helps
John F.
OmegaBowler
Posted: 6/30/2003 2:02 PM It is a must for me now that I have tried it. The key is still having the proper pitches for you hand. CLT just re-orients the angle of the finger pitches to allow for your hands natural angle between your thumb pad and finger pads.
This allow a more comfortable span and still maintain a lot of surface contact between the ball and palm. I measured the before and after and 50% more of my hand rested on the ball.
In my experience a streched out span allows the palm to hold more of the bowling ball, creating a lot more roll. when I dropped span Lengths to stop my hand from hurting, I lost the roll off my hand. when I found CLT it put it all back.
Even when I have to pickup the speed and find myself gripping and ripping on dry shots, my hand is almost pain free the next day. There is only so much a good fit can correct
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Doug Sterner
Posted: 6/30/2003 2:13 PM With the CLT I have seen an increased rev rate, more comfort and a better thumb release. Perhaps the best thing has been the loss of the callous on the right side of my thumb knuckle.
I suppose the rev increase is due to the thumb release and the thumb is releasing cleaner because it is not putting pressure on that part of my thumb anymore (assuming it was from squeezing the ball).
I now use the CLT method to fit every first time fingertip bowler that comes into my shop. The pitches look a little goofy at times when they get written on the drill sheet but the results are there. I have had far fewer problems with bowlers complaining about how the finger tip grip "feels funny" when they first start out.
In short, it works!!!!
Also FYI...if your pro shop uses a GilMac drill press (arguably one of the best presses on the market) it is very difficult to drill a CLT so that may be why some shop owners have never heard of it.
Amigo2
Posted: 7/1/2003 5:02 AM Switched to CLT over a year ago and everything I use is and will be CLT. Although there are some that doubt the value of CLT drilling, I will not go back. Shortened the span, pitched the fingers away, forward and bevel in the thumb and what a feel. The ball just falls into my grip, wished I had known this thirty years earlier!
Amigo
See you in St. Louis
pbafire
Posted: 10/10/2003 5:08 PM For those asking for instructions...don't know if this is what you are looking for, but I took it from my previous coaches website...His name is Paul Pisecny (south african by nature), but has lived in the US a lot and works almost every Nationals....he is the creator of Power Pad if you have seen the small ad in BJI, BTM, etc. He was the coach for the Bahrain National Team while I was stationed out there....TOP NOTCH coach...along with John Fantiti (American, but coaches the Saudi Arabian team), who I had the pleasure of meeting.
He switched me over to this overset thumb..and the results..I get out of the ball quicker, more revs, free'er arm swing (ball doesn't grab as much at top/bottom of swing), less wear and tear on the thumb. I went from a touch reverse / right lateral, round thumb...to a little forward and left lateral..oval thumb, offset 3/4 in. for this new drilling...and the feel is great!
http://ptfgrip.com/html/instructions.htmlhis site is
http://ptfgrip.com for some other products.
Hope it helps
Edited on 2/27/2004 12:26 PM
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