Author Topic: Negative layouts (Read 3789 times)

Ragnar · « **on:** February 03, 2009, 05:55:00 AM »

I've been around a while and I know what happens if you drill negative pins or CG layouts on symmetrical balls. My question is, what about drilling negative layouts with assymetrical balls?

Burak Natal · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:35:32 PM »

John, there is no such think as negative pin-cg layout. It is the deception of the look of the pin-cg-mb locations with regards to finger-thumb holes.

Everything is about the distance to your PAP, NOT any of the drilled holes!

If my PAP is 4 inches over, "5-1/2 inches from PAP layout" will put the pin left of my middle finger. If your PAP is around 5-1/2 inches over, same layout would end up with the pin being placed just below the bridge. Regardless of their look, those two layouts ARE same for our styles.

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Regards,
Natal

Edited on 2/3/2009 3:36 PM

tenpinspro · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2009, 03:55:46 PM »

quote:
My question is, what about drilling negative layouts with assymetrical balls?

Adding to what Burak has stated. The mass bias works the same in theory as the pin. The closer we place it to pap, the sooner we will see the reaction, the further away from pap the later the reaction (assuming the mb strength is .008 or greater).

In a big picture sense with cores (sym or asym), we are basically doing one of two things. Either we can assist the motion of the core or we can delay it from it's natural and desired motion with gravity thus altering a ball's reaction shape. Hope this helps some...
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2009, 06:11:13 PM »

John,

You asked me the same thing in a personal message. I hadn't looked at this but once I did, I agree with Burak and Rick.

Thinking about the pin/cg/MB placement as being negative reinforces a bad idea, that of pin/MB placement being in relation to the finger & thumb holes. We must think of them with respect to our PAP and the VAL and the midline. We are talking about dynamic cores here, not a pancake core any longer, where the CG and static weights had a lot of influence. Their influence in minimal at best.

These days many people place pins and MBs 5.5" - 6" away from their PAP and their VAL. It's better if you start thinking in terms of these relationships rather than in terms of the holes.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Ragnar · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2009, 10:04:43 AM »

Thanks guys.

procorner · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2009, 02:43:20 PM »

A guy I bowl has this type of layout on a striking motion and he is clipping his middle finger and thumb hole. The ball weighs out at 3/4 neg side and 1/2 thumb. His axis is 5 1/4 x 1/4. Is there a way to pull the track off his holes.

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:37:23 AM »

Good info here.
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Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

FrontTwelv · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2009, 09:37:35 AM »

quote:
A guy I bowl has this type of layout on a striking motion and he is clipping his middle finger and thumb hole. The ball weighs out at 3/4 neg side and 1/2 thumb. His axis is 5 1/4 x 1/4. Is there a way to pull the track off his holes.

does any of his other equip do this? is the bow-tie making the track hit the holes?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH

Author Topic: Negative layouts (Read 3789 times)

Ragnar

Negative layouts

Burak Natal

Re: Negative layouts

tenpinspro

Re: Negative layouts

charlest

Re: Negative layouts

Ragnar

Re: Negative layouts

procorner

Re: Negative layouts

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Negative layouts

FrontTwelv

Re: Negative layouts