Author Topic: Is this Legal? (Read 5540 times)

louie · « **on:** January 27, 2007, 07:37:35 AM »

I'm a no thumber. I have a ball that was drilled with finger holes only. CG between finger holes with a half oz of top weight after drilling. No side or finger weight. This is legal as I understand the rules. I have now drilled this ball with new finger holes and a thumb hole. The cg and old finger holes are in the new grip center. I haven't checked it yet, but the statics should be legal. Is this ball legal for usbc play with the old finger holes in grip center or do they have to be plugged for the ball to be legal?
Thanx for your replies and expertise. I'm just playing around with this ball, but I might use it in a league if it's legal. Otherwise I'll make it a practice ball or plug either the new holes or the old ones.
--------------------

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?

louie

Juggernaut · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2007, 03:50:20 PM »

The way you have it stated, no, it isn't legal.

You are allowed 1 weight hole, five holes for gripping purposes ( one for each finger and one for the thumb), and each gripping hole may have a small venting hole. You may also have a P.B.A. mill stamp on it.

The way you say it is now, you have a full grip drilled in it ( three holes ) and the old two finger holes. While that technically does meet the five gripping holes requirement, all the holes must have the proper fingers in them while releasing the ball. Any finger holes not used can be considered extra weight holes.

If you plug one of the old holes it would be legal because then you would only have one "weight" hole.

Or, I guess you could get away with knocking out the bridge between to two old finger holes, making them into a single, albeit oblong, hole. It would be ugly, but legal.
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"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"

J_Mac · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2007, 04:08:42 PM »

quote:

Or, I guess you could get away with knocking out the bridge between to two old finger holes, making them into a single, albeit oblong, hole. It would be ugly, but legal.
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"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"

If he used inserts that oblong hole would still be illegal. Going with the industy standard minimum bridge width he'd have an oblong hole just under 2 1/4" by 1" wide.
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:48:59 PM »

According to USBC Rules Chapter 7 Section 2 Line 4, your ball is leagal as is.

I do not see anywhere in USBC rules that govern gripping holes on where they can or can't be....
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MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Edited on 1/29/2007 11:12 AM

Androooo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:22:50 AM »

If a hole isn't used for gripping purposes, it is classed as a weight hole (balance hole, x-hole... whatever)

Since the unused finger holes aren't used for gripping purposes, they are classed as weight holes, which the rules state, you can only have one hole for weight purposes.

Even if you knocked out the bridge so it become one big hole, it would still be illegal, due to the 1 1/4" dia. limit on weight holes.

Ball is illegal.
--------------------
Andrew Phillips

The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl

Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2007, 12:23:40 AM »

quote:
If a hole isn't used for gripping purposes, it is classed as a weight hole (balance hole, x-hole... whatever)

Since the unused finger holes aren't used for gripping purposes, they are classed as weight holes, which the rules state, you can only have one hole for weight purposes.

Even if you knocked out the bridge so it become one big hole, it would still be illegal, due to the 1 1/4" dia. limit on weight holes.

Ball is illegal.
--------------------
Andrew Phillips

The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl

Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff

According to you then, anyone who removes one finger from a hole to shoot a corner pin with a ball with an x-hole is using an illegal ball because that would be an unused gripping hole.....

WRONG.................

According to Mark Grubich USBC Senior Rules Counselor, there is no provision in USBC specifications that would not allow a ball to have 5 holes for gripping purposes which would include a thumb hole and four finger holes (two each drilled conventional and fingertip). The equipment after drilling would have to meet all USBC specifications for weight and balance to be used in certified competition.

If ball meets all USBC specifications for weight and balance, it is legal!!
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Edited on 1/30/2007 1:22 AM

DP3 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:26:06 AM »

Drop 2 finger slugs in there and you can use it. Problem solved without waiting a day for plug. Probaly cheaper too
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop

Grayson · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:43:46 AM »

as far as I understand the rules... as long tas the weight balances are ok it is legal... who say I actually have to use a hole to make it a finger hole and why should it "change" into an x-hole just cause I don't pun my finger in?

We had similar discussion with no thumb players as on stated the thumb would have to be put over the thumbhole... I don't see a point in that.. I always put my palm/wrist over the thumbhole shortening the distance from middle to thumb to get another reaction.

There are no ruls how a ball must be thrown as far as I know and if I want to thrwo it even without an finger in it... then I have 4 x-holes... who cares?

--------------------
Balls:
Lane#1 XXXL
Tsunami
and Carbide+
Saw 'Em Down!
Have fun and bowl well!

(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
bunny honey.... just be funny..

and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)

J_L_B · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:23:00 AM »

quote:
If a hole isn't used for gripping purposes, it is classed as a weight hole (balance hole, x-hole... whatever)

Since the unused finger holes aren't used for gripping purposes, they are classed as weight holes, which the rules state, you can only have one hole for weight purposes.

Even if you knocked out the bridge so it become one big hole, it would still be illegal, due to the 1 1/4" dia. limit on weight holes.

Ball is illegal.

No actually he's RIGHT. It's just almost impossible to enforce. Every hole drilled for gripping MUST be used for gripping at all times otherwise it becomes an x-hole.

If someone only uses their fingers for their strike ball (palm ball), and that ball has a drilled thumb hole and an x-hole, they must cover the drilled thumb hole with their palm in order for it to be a legal ball. There again it's almost impossible to enforce.

I've called someone on this and the USBC backed my play, but the bowler in question said he covered the thumb hole with his palm, which was deemed legal by the USBC.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-07
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Grayson · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:36:22 AM »

rules......

ok... I'm outta here...

--------------------
Balls:
Lane#1 XXXL
Tsunami
and Carbide+
Saw 'Em Down!
Have fun and bowl well!

(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
bunny honey.... just be funny..

and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)

cgilyeat · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:37:31 AM »

quote:
quote:
If a hole isn't used for gripping purposes, it is classed as a weight hole (balance hole, x-hole... whatever)

Since the unused finger holes aren't used for gripping purposes, they are classed as weight holes, which the rules state, you can only have one hole for weight purposes.

Even if you knocked out the bridge so it become one big hole, it would still be illegal, due to the 1 1/4" dia. limit on weight holes.

Ball is illegal.

No actually he's RIGHT. It's just almost impossible to enforce. Every hole drilled for gripping MUST be used for gripping at all times otherwise it becomes an x-hole.

If someone only uses their fingers for their strike ball (palm ball), and that ball has a drilled thumb hole and an x-hole, they must cover the drilled thumb hole with their palm in order for it to be a legal ball. There again it's almost impossible to enforce.

I've called someone on this and the USBC backed my play, but the bowler in question said he covered the thumb hole with his palm, which was deemed legal by the USBC.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-07
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Can you show us the rule where it says that gripping holes must be used at all times? As far as I know, as long as the holes are in the correct locations so that your fingers or thumb can be inserted into them, the ball is legal whether you use them or not.

mortonjl · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:42:25 AM »

Oatman used only his thumb to shoot 7 pins on Sunday, people have done this for years.

hskrntx · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2007, 06:15:07 AM »

IF the USBC actually had any cojones, and IF they actually enforced their rules, and IF they actually wrote rules that made sense and then intended to enforce them, then MAYBE there wouldn't be so many discussions like this! MAYBE, just maybe, if people weren't always trying to get "around" the rules, and tried to follow the "intent" of the rules, we also wouldn't have so many problems!

Oh well, none of that is ever going to come true, so . . . here we go again, and again, and again, and . . . . . .
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Semper Fi! AMForce Rocks!
www.burnlounge.com/hskrntx - for all of your digital download needs!

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2007, 09:50:16 AM »

Mark Grubich USBC Senior Rules Counselor, says ball is legal. Why is there still a debate?

?
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

cgilyeat · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2007, 11:12:14 AM »

quote:
Mark Grubich USBC Senior Rules Counselor, says ball is legal. Why is there still a debate??
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Maybe, just maybe, some people think that they are right, and Mr Grubich is wrong or simply because they still want to debate it.