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Author Topic: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**  (Read 16514 times)

1-2-3

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UPDATE 9-13-04

Here’s the promised update on the right ball and drilling for dry lanes.
(Read original post below)

I went to my driller and found he couldn’t get the Sonic X Pearl from his distributor.  So I selected the Centaur from Visionary.  After discussing what I wanted to do, my driller checked my PAP and said it was 5 ½ by ¼ up.  (The last ball he drilled for me my PAP was 5 by ¼ up.) To get the pin above the fingers, he said the pin to PAP would need to be 6”.  The Centaur had 3.33 oz of top weight and a pin of 3 inches.  Also if you draw a line from the pin to the MB the CG is about ¼ inch to the right.  With this stacked layout the thumb hole took out the MB locator pin.  I didn’t change the ball surface and of course no extra hole was needed.

I practiced a few games and found the ball very controlled for the dry lanes.  I could stand in the middle of the lanes and throw the second arrow much like what I’m use to.  If I missed inside my mark and got into what little oil was on the lanes I’d leave the 2 - 8.  If I sent the ball wide it would hook to the Brooklyn side of the pocket.  Of course this was in practice and not with nine other guys throwing the same line.

On the first night of leagues the lanes seemed drier than they were in practice and the ball was burning up before it could get to the pocket and didn’t have any pop left for the pins.  I was pretty sure the surface needed a shine to overcome this condition.  Before the next week’s league night I shined the ball with Neo-Tac Control-It. This helped tremendously.  The ball had much more pop when it hit the pins and reacted much better if I missed to the outside of my mark.

All in all, this layout with this ball allows me to play the dry shot much like I would a more traditional house shot.  The drawbacks so far have been that I don’t have a very large strike area (better a little outside my mark than inside.) and the ball rolls over the finger and/or thumbholes occasionally.   I can’t tell which hole because of the dry shot no oil comes back on the ball and there aren’t any signs of a track yet.  I’ve never had this problem with a ball that had the pin above my fingers.  Would an extra hole strategically placed help with this?  My driller recommended I point my thumb at the pins when I hold and then release the ball.  This does help prevent the thumping of the holes but I’m not 100% comfortable with this release yet.  Any other suggestions are welcomed.

I would also like to mention that I’m really happy with the Visionary Ball.  When I throw it right the ball reacts very consistently and hits like a truck.  (I just had to add the truck comment for all the regular post readers.)  I’d like to try one of the Gargoyles, but will wait till next year.  I’ve heard the owners of the lanes are going to install synthetic lanes next year.  Maybe they’ll spring for more oil too!  

Thanks again for all those that helped me with my situation.

ORIGINAL POST:
I've been bowled in a different house for a couple years now and need some advice on what ball and drilling layout I should use for these very dry lanes.

The lanes are old wood with a thin oil pattern from 10 to 10 and dry outside of that.  The length of oil is only 26 feet.  The shot seems to stay pretty consistent for our three game shift, but my end of year average for each game shows the first game is highest (211), second game (209) and last game (199).  I think this drop is due mainly to the fact that I have to throw so hard, by the third game I’m wore out and lose my accuracy, especially for spares.

I've been reading everything on this forum about balls and drilling layouts.  I've read LuckyLefty’s novella post several times and hopefully I've “figured out” what I should do.  (Add me to the list of people wanting to thank him for his time and information!)  But I’d like some reassurance before I make the investment.  I read all these posts and everyone talks about buying three or four balls a season.  I feel lucky to get one ball a season, so I have to make it count.  

When I started bowling in this house I bought a Storm Blaze and had it drilled with Storm’s #1 layout (5” pin to PAP).  Although this worked better than my Trauma ER it still seemed to start turning up to the pocket as soon as I let go of it, virtually no skid.  I then had an old Hammer 3D Offset-Super Flip plugged and redrilled with 5-1/2” pin to PAP and the mass bias left of my thumbhole.  While it did skid further I think the flip weight block caused it to be a little unpredictable and extreme in its reaction.

This last season I bought an X-Factor Reloaded to replace my Trauma ER, which I use in a different house that has much more oil.  I tired the Reloaded just to see what it would do on the dry lanes.  The Reloaded is drilled with Storms #4 layout (3-3/8” pin to PAP).  It worked the best and most consistent of anything I have.  It still hooks way too much for these dry lanes but I try not to put too much fingers in the shot and keep behind the ball and push it out to the gutter as far down the lanes as I can.  A very deep, inside swinging shot. Not my usual down and in line.

My stats are that I’m right-handed, high track with medium-high speed and medium revs. I think my axis rotation is somewhere from 35 to 45 degrees. (Based on the description in LuckyLefty’s post.)  I’m not sure what my PAP measurement is exactly; my track is within an 1/8 inch and to the left of my middle finger and about a 1/4 inch and to the left of the thumbhole.

What I've “figured out” and am thinking about buying:

Visionary’s Slate Blue Gargoyle with at least a 4” Pin Out and at least 3-1/2 oz of topweight.

The drilling layout would be with the pin above the finger holes (6-1/2” pin to PAP?) and the CG in the grip center as close as possible. (Stacked?)  

Whatever the pin to PAP measurement will be I want the pin above the middle of my fingers at the very least.  (What would it do if the pin was more to the left or above my middle finger?)  The layouts I mentioned above with 5 or 5-1/2” pin to PAP only place the pin slightly above and just to the right of my ring finger. They were both about 3-1/2” pin out balls.  

My line of thought is that the 6”+ pin to PAP will give me the most skid (Length) and the urethane will help control the hook back to the pocket.  Also with the ball having 4” Pin Out I think the pin will be close to my first track ring.  I remember reading something about that.

I chose the Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle because it was one of only two pearl urethane balls that have a decent core.  Some of the guys I bowl with in the dry house purchased Hammer’s new red urethane ball.  But they leave a lot of corners, 5 pins and 5-7 & 5-10 splits with it.  I think it’s because of the pancake weightblock.  I looked at Lane #1’s XXL Urethane Pearl but the difference in price was the deciding factor.  

Well there’s my situation, I hope it’s interesting enough for someone to respond back.  

Thanks, in advance, to all that do.

Edited on 9/13/2004 12:12 PM

Edited on 9/13/2004 12:30 PM

 

janderson

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quote:
Another drilling i use on wet / dry or dry shots with a mild ball is similar to old axis weight, is lo-rg drillings.  The ball will roll earlier but have very mild readable backends.  1-1/2 x 90degrees for example.  As long as you have enuff speed it will hit and mix emup real well.


This is usually a good plan to try, but with the conditions 1-2-3 is stating, we're talking about very short (26 feet) oil.  There's a good chance that the ball would roll out as it leaves the midlane and be dead on arrival unless the shell is very weak or the ball is thrown pretty fast (but then, you can overcome just about any super-dry condition by throwing the ball 30mph).  However, Nod's suggestion is sound: consider drilling a ball that doesn't give you length with snap, but length with arc to tone down the back-end, we want strikes, not 4-6's.

As a "next step down" from an axis layout with arc, consider a 315 degree layout (http://www.rollrite.co.uk/secrets.php?id=11) combined with a weak shell.

For some ball comparison, despite very weak drillings, both my power groove (pearl reactive) and Sonic X are strong in terms of overall boards covered, though the Sonic X gets more length before it turns in.  My Barrage, V2 Dry, and Big Hit are all weaker (in terms of boards covered) with more length.
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Edited on 5/26/2004 2:50 PM

charlest

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quote:
Thanks too Charlest I'll check out those other mild resins.
Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???



Basically, too damned many variables ....  

Good luck.
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pjr300

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quote:
...  See BTM June 03 for some great layouts.  Do not use the standard drill charts most companies give you for Symetric balls.  Mo Pinel published some that work great in the Bowling this Month I mentioned.


Hey Nod, good post. However, I went back to the June 03 BTM and looked at the Mo column. The aricle was more general on layouts.... can you provide more specifics on what you did with your layouts?


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Nodsleinad

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June 2003, page 8.  I used the "Sharpest Brakpoint" drilling in a Ti-Messenger B/S/P.  It is good for med-dry when the lanes are starting to break down and I need to move far left and still carry those corners.  I used a 4.5 pin distance with the pin 1.5 away from VAL and the CG about 2-1/2 away from PAP.  No weight hole was required but if one was i would would of put it off the VAL about 1-1/8 away with that weight hole pitched 1-1/8 away from grip center.  This type weight hole adds top weight, thus more length and flip.

Nod
LTBOCSFM

omegabowler

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I would also look into a 135 deg layout. you will still have to move in deep and give it some decent speed but the balls hook set reaction will keep you in the pocket.

dry is dry and equipment can only get you so far. you have to learn to play 4th,5th maybe 6th arrow if you want great carry and hit at the pins.

if you want to stay with just an up the lanes shot and keep it in the pocket try a pin on PAP layout.

in both cases a Highly polished ball, resin pearl most likely. but there is a particle ball, the V2 dry that is very playable on short patterns.


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pjr300

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Thanks Nod! I looked at that page again last night, and was guessing that you were using the bottom right layout (smoothest breakpoint) to take the reaction.

Do you use that layout for total dry as well as medium dry?


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Edited on 5/28/2004 9:30 AM
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Nodsleinad

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The only prob with 135 degree layouts is they tend to flatten out and thus not carry corners from deeper on the lanes.  If one can stay straighter they are great.  (I am 380-420 RPM and they do for me)   For overall dry (more than what i use that Ti for) I use a Midnight Blue Quantum (old ball) with a pin above fingers on grip centerline with CG swung right and no weight hole,  (weight holes make balls read earlier).   Lots of length and rolling backend or I use the LO-RG drillings on a very mild ball.  I also have some old stuff like a Purple Rhino Pro or the Urethane stuff (Visionary Slate Gargoyle).  But if I am deeper on fried/drier lanes i will use a ball like the new Fire from Ebonite with Pin to PAP distance of 5-6 with Pin 1-1/2 to 2 from VAL.  Higher Rg with some length and recovery left to carry corners.

Nod

Edited on 5/28/2004 10:32 AM
LTBOCSFM

TheBowlingKid25

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If the lanes are as dry as you say, one word, plastic. One is the Lane #1 XXXL. Or urethane would also work.
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And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

1-2-3

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2004, 06:57:16 PM »
Well, I’d like to start off by thanking everyone that responded to my question.

What I’ve gleaned from the conversations is that I should be considering a mild resin reactive with a low differential (.02) and a high RG (2.60) such as the Sonic X pearl.  

Not the pearl urethane I thought would be the ticket, although I’m keeping my eye on the reviews of Visionary’s Centaur, it has the same stats as the Sonic X, although not a pearl.  I wouldn’t mind trying something from them.  From the reviews posted, they seem to make well-liked products. (It’s also fun to have something nobody else does.)(If you’re bowling well.)

The next bit of information is the drilling layout.  Here there’s not as a precise choice.  But it is obvious that I was the only one that liked the 6-1/2” pin to PAP (pin above middle of fingers).  It seemed the consensus was that this was too weak of a layout for such a weak ball.

My gut feeling is that if I select a much stronger layout it will hook too much.  I’ve used a friend’s plastic spare ball and it hooked plenty. Problem with it was after about three or four frames of using it, I’d start leaving weird splits or single pins in the back row.

I want something less than I have with my current equipment.  So I’m going to throw caution to the wind and try this weak layout.  Who knows, maybe it’ll only be 6” or 5-3/4” pin to PAP to get the pin above my fingers.  

(Or maybe it will become a very expensive spare ball.)  

The only way I won’t do this is if my driller, who’s seen me bowl, says it’s a big mistake. (Then everyone out there can give me the old "I told you so!")

Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and I’ll post a review on what I find out.

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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2004, 07:38:32 PM »
Good luck with that, and hey, if ur setup doesnt work, you can always plug and redrill, not a biggy
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

pjr300

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2004, 07:53:35 PM »

Keep us posted... report your results here! This has been a good thread.

I know a lot of folks use the 5" layouts, but for me (being hand challenged) they don't work well... I can't get the ball to react with any gusto. The 105* layout works well for me until they get really toasted.

I am very interested in the 25* layouts from the Kim Adler site as posted by Brian N. I have plans to try them on either a HotWire or a Time Zone.

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pjr300
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pjr300

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2004, 12:51:53 AM »
quote:
.... To throw another opinion into the mix - I recently learned something really cool that I only half-expected to work. I got ....

"1st drilling type: 4" pin out from CG (at least) to get the pin way way high above the fingers, about 5” from the axis, CG swung out to 20-25 degrees (so you cannot have a huge amount of topweight ... try to keep the XH on the smaller, deeper side, about 1.5” past the axis.) This works well in medium coverstocks, and will allow you to do 2 opposite things based upon ball surface - play up the dirt with more speed and stay there when other balls run out, and allow you to open the lane up more with scuff. "

... It behaves just like she says. This is a much more readable layout for me than axis-anything. I don't think I'd stood right of 20 in over 15 years until I used this. I am currently infatuated with this in situations where you can play direct.



Brian, I am curious on what ball you used with this layout. I want to give it a try, but not sure if I should go moderately aggressive with the shell (Inferno), moderately weak (Blazing Inferno), or ultra weak (Sonic X, Big Hit). The drillling takes out a lot of pop.... I don't know how weak to go with the shell. Any hints would be great! Thx...


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pjr300
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2004, 01:43:41 AM »
Talk about plastic.  I thought your observation about striking then leaving backrow pins is right on.

Plastic creates carrydown quick!  The pros use it practice to try to quickly blend out harsh transitions.

But once that carrydown starts if you are using a neutral drilled plastic.
Straight over label for spares.

There are no dynamics from the core and thus almost no flare, therefore once there is wet stuff at back plastic with no flare has no grab.  Believe me, plastic set up with some moderate dynamics even if just a pancake block will create some flare.  I know, I have one that didn't want to hit 7 pin the other night!

But again a little more flare but not much hit on carrydown of anytype.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS you are going to have to make a decision.  Strong drilling on weak resin or weaker drilling on weak resin.  Or pearl urethane.  (very slow movement in responding to dry).  I again have found that significantly drilling weaker than my other medium stuff is drilled (that usually works for me) on a weak ball makes it a very very seldom used specialty ball.
PPS A general rule is if you carry 3 balls don't do it!  If you carry 6 balls to a tournament this weak drilling on a weak ball will often only be used to add to the weight of the stuff you bring in.  But on the day you really need it, it will be there well rested to do it's job!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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pjr300

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2004, 08:22:52 AM »

Well I have a weak drilled medium ball (105* Threat, as listed on my profile).  It is absolutely great when the mid lane is breaking down. However, am still struggling to find the right combo for when the heads are gone too. Maybe I should try that 25* drill on a medium ball... kind of a weaker version of the Threat.


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pjr300
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pjr300

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Re: Is this the right ball and drilling layout for dry lanes? **UPDATED**
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2004, 10:20:21 AM »
thx! My surafce issues are more with dry synthetics. Getting through the toasted heads is for with my relatively slower speed. Maybe I'll experiement and put it on my Chaos (3" pin). Will need tons of polish, but if it worked on an Inferno, it should work here as well.



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Edited on 6/7/2004 8:48 PM
pjr300
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