Author Topic: Kicking the CG out (Read 8822 times)

jdhaze · « **on:** January 26, 2007, 06:24:19 AM »

On Sym balls you often hear people say they kicked the CG out, in general how does that effect the reaction? Also if you kick the CG in, what would that do?

thanks

JD

azus · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:32:09 PM »

It gives the same result as with asymetrical, but it wont affect the ball rection as much. Symetrical is balls with weak mb.
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Greg T · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:33:57 PM »

Kicking your CG out is a method that allows you to tailor your ball reaction by moving some weight to the positive axis side of the ball. When you kick it enough to bring the static side weight out of tolerance, you can then add a flare reducing hole or a flare increasing hole, depending upon what you want the ball to do. You will hear a lot of folks on here that says the cg doesnt matter in ball reaction, but thats only half the story. By pushing the weight to the right it will allow you to drill the x-hole into the core at various locations to fine tune the reaction down the lane.

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SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey. They had a face off.

jdhaze · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2007, 04:15:22 PM »

Thanks for the replies!

Reason I ask is that I just picked up some used equipment and plugged the thumbs to adjust the fit to see how I liked them. Both have small wt holes in them and the CG's kicked in.. sounds like if I want to alter the reaction on them I could just plug and move the wt holes rather than plug and redrill the whole ball. If neither will make much difference then I will just leave them as is and adjust the coverstocks to tweak them.

thanks again

JD

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:03:28 PM »

quote:
On Sym balls you often hear people say they kicked the CG out, in general how does that effect the reaction? Also if you kick the CG in, what would that do?

thanks

JD

IBPSIA/Striking Effects Pro Shop use the use the following rating as to what affects ball reaction:

1- Coverstock and surface preparation 65-70%
2- Core 15-20%
3- Pin placement and Dynamic weights 10-15%
4- Mass Bias 0-10%
5- Balance hole 0-5%
6- Static Weights 0-2%

Statics and CG location have a minimal affect.
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MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Greg T · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:25:57 PM »

quote:

IBPSIA/Striking Effects Pro Shop use the use the following rating as to what affects ball reaction:

1- Coverstock and surface preparation 65-70%
2- Core 15-20%
3- Pin placement and Dynamic weights 10-15%
4- Mass Bias 0-10%
5- Balance hole 0-5%
6- Static Weights 0-2%

Statics and CG location have a minimal affect.

1 and 2 are very close. The rest is horse hockey. The ball companies don't give you different layouts for nothing.

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SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey.
They had a face off.

leftehh- LG · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:31:52 PM »

quote:
Kicking your CG out is a method that allows you to tailor your ball reaction by moving some weight to the positive axis side of the ball. When you kick it enough to bring the static side weight out of tolerance, you can then add a flare reducing hole or a flare increasing hole, depending upon what you want the ball to do. You will hear a lot of folks on here that says the cg doesnt matter in ball reaction, but thats only half the story. By pushing the weight to the right it will allow you to drill the x-hole into the core at various locations to fine tune the reaction down the lane.

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SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey. They had a face off.

Well it's to be in compliance with USBC's static weight rule, which a lot of people think is pointless.
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Greg T · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2007, 10:04:01 PM »

Yes, it has to be in compliance with the rules, BUT, when you use a weight hole you can put the weight hole where it either increases the flare, decreases the flare, or doesnt affect the flare that much. Since flare affects the hook of the ball, and quite considerably at times, I would say the weight hole plays an important part.

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SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey.
They had a face off.

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:07:46 PM »

quote:
quote:

IBPSIA/Striking Effects Pro Shop use the use the following rating as to what affects ball reaction:

1- Coverstock and surface preparation 65-70%
2- Core 15-20%
3- Pin placement and Dynamic weights 10-15%
4- Mass Bias 0-10%
5- Balance hole 0-5%
6- Static Weights 0-2%

Statics and CG location have a minimal affect.

1 and 2 are very close. The rest is horse hockey. The ball companies don't give you different layouts for nothing.

--------------------
SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey.
They had a face off.

horse hockey is "your" opinion..........
1-6 are the industry standard!!
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Wallshot · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:34:44 PM »

Place that mb on your pap and see if the 0-10% still holds true....bet not

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:31:06 AM »

quote:
Place that mb on your pap and see if the 0-10% still holds true....bet not

Depends on core strength!
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

cmoore3wins · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:32:06 AM »

quote:
well i have to agree that surface is a huge factor in performance...but drill a ball with trhe pin dead smack on your PAP, then drill the same ball with the pin above your fingers with a 45 degree mb and tell me layout is only 10%
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What do you got sugar for Mr. McCrackin???

#3 is 10-15%
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

Greg T · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:03:45 AM »

quote:
quote:
well i have to agree that surface is a huge factor in performance...but drill a ball with trhe pin dead smack on your PAP, then drill the same ball with the pin above your fingers with a 45 degree mb and tell me layout is only 10%
--------------------
What do you got sugar for Mr. McCrackin???

#3 is 10-15%
--------------------
MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....

If you think this is all etched in stone, i have a test you can make for yourself. Layout and drill up a good ball (3"pin) with the pin at 4" and the MB at 30 degrees. Use a ball with about 3.5 or 4 ounces of TW. Throw the ball (fresh shot)without a weight hole and note the reaction. Next, drill a weight reducing hole 3" over and 2" up from GC. Make the hole 3" deep and whatever diameter it takes to arrive at 1/2 oz positive. Note the reaction. Finally, plug that weight hole and drill another 6.5" over and 3" down from GC and use the same method to drill your hole. Note the reaction. And then come back and TRUTHFULLY tell us that statics, weight holes, and CG placements are minimal. I guarrantee you'll have a whole different outlook on the post you've made.

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SIG CHANGED BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF WHINERS: Two lepers were playing hockey.
They had a face off.

backswing_aplenty · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2007, 05:30:36 PM »

No one's arguing about the placement of weight holes or their usefulness in fine tuning ball reaction. The debate is on the "1/2oz side" kind of phrases. Weight holes are understood and necessary to get certain ball reactions. We see how they effect reaction and the shape of the hook. What we can't see is the effect of top, side, or bottom weight on a ball's dynamics.

The 1/2oz, 3/4oz, or whatever partial ounce is left has no discernable effect upon ball reaction with todays covers and cores. It's the weight holes that we use to bring balls back to legal limits that influence reaction not the left over weight on the side, top, or bottom.

That is all...

*backswing
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*...Got the 5 out clean!

To prove I'm real

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qstick777 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:14:12 PM »

quote:
No one's arguing about the placement of weight holes or their usefulness in fine tuning ball reaction. The debate is on the "1/2oz side" kind of phrases. Weight holes are understood and necessary to get certain ball reactions. We see how they effect reaction and the shape of the hook. What we can't see is the effect of top, side, or bottom weight on a ball's dynamics.

The 1/2oz, 3/4oz, or whatever partial ounce is left has no discernable effect upon ball reaction with todays covers and cores. It's the weight holes that we use to bring balls back to legal limits that influence reaction not the left over weight on the side, top, or bottom.

That is all...

*backswing
--------------------
*...Got the 5 out clean!

To prove I'm real http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=270&ms=2931&s=2005-2006

Based on my personal experience, I'd have to disagree with the statement that "1/2oz, 3/4oz, or whatever partial ounce is left has no discernable effect."

I had a ball (AMF Velocity) that would not make the turn for me. Made a trip to a pro shop located in an AMF center to have them look at the ball. After watching me throw the ball 4-5 times, he also threw the ball. He took the ball back to the shop and weighed it out. He found that it had a full ounce of positive side weight (legal according to USBC rules).

He went ahead and drilled the weight hole bigger and took the ball to somewhere around 1/2 ounce of positive side weight. After that, the ball reacted great. So, maybe that 1/2 ounce doesn't make much of a difference to you, but it transformed my ball from a straight arrow to a nice little hook monster.

As far as I understand it, balls have top/bottom weight, side weight(positive and negative), and finger/thumb weight. After watching BrunsNick's x-hole video again, I'd be interested to know the static weights of each of the holes. That might make it easier (for me at least!) to understand the relation of reaction due to thumb and finger weight.
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Author Topic: Kicking the CG out (Read 8822 times)

jdhaze

Kicking the CG out

azus

Re: Kicking the CG out

Greg T

Re: Kicking the CG out

jdhaze

Re: Kicking the CG out

cmoore3wins

Re: Kicking the CG out

Greg T

Re: Kicking the CG out

leftehh- LG

Re: Kicking the CG out

Greg T

Re: Kicking the CG out

cmoore3wins

Re: Kicking the CG out

Wallshot

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cmoore3wins

Re: Kicking the CG out

cmoore3wins

Re: Kicking the CG out

Greg T

Re: Kicking the CG out

backswing_aplenty

Re: Kicking the CG out

qstick777

Re: Kicking the CG out