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Author Topic: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)  (Read 17487 times)

Champ99

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Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« on: August 27, 2004, 07:40:58 AM »
I recently went to a bowling ball seminar and the instructor said you NEVER give a right hander right pitch or a left hander left pitch in the thumb.  This doesn't sound right to me.  Can anyone confirm or deny this statement?

Thanks

 

Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 09:06:15 PM »
Up until recently, I would have agreed with Precision. Now, I'm not sure if I do or don't. I also don't believe in the Coke Can test. The Coke Can Test is a case for me of "been there, done that." I am going to show here what JohnP said about these  lateral pitches back on 7-30-04 in this same column. Then on 8-8-04, LuckyLefty made a post on checking pitches. LL's pitch checking experiment really works, believe me. It worked for me, it worked for 4 of my friends where I bowl and it worked for lefty50 on this site. I used Johns method to check and establish my thumb reverse and lateral pitch and LL's method for fine tuning the pitches both lateral and forward in both thumb and fingers.

John's lateral check to start:
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I very seldom measure anyone that needs right thumb pitch. Occasionally 0, more frequently 1/8 to 1/4 L. Make a fist in the same manner you would grip the proverbial Coke can. Now try to move your thumb in the R pitch direction (for righties, reverse for lefties). Feel a lot of resistance? Now move it in the L pitch direction. Moves easily, doesn't it. Now put your hand roughly in a bowling grip and try moving the thumb similarly. Same thing? If you miss the lateral pitch on the R side, you can very easily lock the bowler into the ball unless he turns the ball early. I know this, because my grip was that way for over 30 years. When you make the fist, if your thumb falls between the RF and MF, I figure that's 0 pitch. On the MF is 1/8" L, and between the MF and IF is 1/4" L. I very seldom find anyone that needs more than 1/4" L. -- JohnP
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LuckyLefty's Pitch Check for final "Fine Tuning"

Anyway. I still believe best way is probably to do this with an Adjustable ball.

But I sort of took his idea yesterday and followed thru with it, with some of my drilled balls.

Take the ball put your hand in it. Hang it straight down from your bowling shoulder and feel. Turn the ball so that the fingers are forward and the thumb is back. Letting the ball just hang very naturally.

It is amazing how well one can FEEL the pitches and span this way.

For example many people here on this site wonder jeez is my lateral pitch of my thumb correct?. FEEL and this method will tell you very accurately.
In other words if the lateral pitch under palm(right) is NOT enough for your hand for you righthanders one will feel pressure on two spots.

Now these positions are described as though either you are analyzing it holding it or someone looking from behind you is observing this.

IF NOT enough right lateral pitch(for the righty) and the ball hanging straight down from your arm with wrist naturally broken and fingers forward and thumb back. One will feel pressure at the top of the thumbhole at the upper left hand top of the thumb hole. (The bevel corner). One will also feel pressure at the bottom corner of the nail to the right(away from your body).

A slight increase in lateral right is called for in the above case as your thumbhole is not alighned with YOUR anatomy. In this case the thumb is NOT going down the barrell of the thumbhole one is getting rubbing on two surfaces.
The upper corner(bevel corner) and the opposite lower nail corner. This will interfere with consistency AND REVS.

The converse is true also! If one has too much lateral right in drilling your thumbhole for YOUR thumb one will get the opposite effect. Rubbing at the two opposite corners.

The sides to feel rubbing are naturally reversed for left handers.

Also one can feel the properness of the span this way. Rubbing only against the front of the thumbhole with a lot of pressure too long. Rubbing only against the back of the thumbhole then too short.

I tested the above in three iterations of balls I had.
One was 3/32, left(for this leftie), 5/32 left for this leftie, and 7/32.
Which I have been bowling very well with lately thank you. A noticeable feeling of hitting top and opposite bottom was present at the 3/32 setting.
A reduction in pressure at 5/32 and then no pressure at 7/32. Funny this is where I have been bowling my best at.

The following I have not tested to the completion but I will soon!

Also, and I have not followed thru on this one may be able to feel the properness of thumb forward and reverse. The test is the following.

While the ball hangs naturally from bowling shoulder there will be a slight break in the wrist back towards the front of you. Again this test is ALSO done with the fingers forward and thumb back.

If one now rolls the wrist while holding the ball so the the wrist is now straight or slightly cupped.(again with back of the hand (fingers)forward and thumb (back)

Whatever you do, one may feel an increase in pressure againt the surface of the flat of the thumb. I have a feeling this indicates a slight amount of too much reverse. I theorize mine may be about 1/16 too much reverse based on the increase in pressure.

I believe all these tests are probably better off done with an adjustable ball before you drill but if you just want to check a presently drilled ball it is a great way for one to feel it.

For whatever reason the weight of the ball combined with having the ball basically backwards seems to make one very aware of the feel of the ball and the proper angles.

Thanks Smash! and to the rest of you throwers, give it a try you may be amazed at the sensitivity to your grip you gain!

REgards,

Luckylefty




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pjr300

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2004, 12:05:01 AM »

REad Bill Taylor's articles in BTM. He's been preaching for years that shops give bowlers too much lateral left. People are starting to listen!


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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2004, 11:54:52 AM »
quote:
He's been preaching for years that shops give bowlers too much lateral left. People are starting to listen!



 

Ha Ha, I don't think so. I quit listening to Bill Taylor, went to 3/16 left lateral and problem solved.

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thedjs

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2004, 12:18:29 PM »
Along that same line, is it true that most bowlers are now going to more forward pitch rather than reverse?  I have read a coupe of articles that indicate that this seems to be the trend.  

Would this be a good idea for someone with "early release" by keeping their hand in the ball a little longer?  Would it not also help with the "free arm swing" concept?

Any opinions?

JohnP

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2004, 04:15:24 PM »
Thumb and finger pitches must be specifically fitted to each bowler's hand.  There is no "magic" combination that works for everyone.  Find a driller that knows how to read your hand and has a Jayhawk-type fitting ball.  Start out with the spans and pitches he recommends and change them in the fitting ball until you find the combination that works for you.  --  JohnP

Flip-Side-Wow

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Re: Lateral Pitches in Thumb (Right and Left)
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2004, 08:47:01 PM »
Echoing JohnP...."There is no "magic" combination that works for everyone."  Could not have said it better myself.  

There are three major components to a bowling grip. Span, Thumb Pitch(forward or reverse) and Thumb Hole Size. When measured and drilled correctly, based on each individual's hand, a non-squeeze, non-muscled, free armswing with virtually an automatic release timing can be obtained. Minor components of the grip, like lateral thumb pitch (either left or right), and finger pitches (forward or reverse) can be implemented for several factors including joint flexibility, changing axis tilt or axis rotation, more/less finger hit, etc.
 
When one or more of these minor components are implemented then one or more of the major components will need some type adjustment. As an example, you cannot change "1/4 R and 0 lat thumb pitch to 1/4 F 1/8 rt" and maintain the same span/hole size with out locking up in the ball. Therefore a span adjustment or hole size change will be needed to make it work. As you can guess making the hole bigger is not the best choice because in all likelihood the grip will become a squeeze/muscled type.

In most cases people who end up using or needing a more exotic lateral pitch in the thumb are compensating for a deficient, improper major component of their grip, based on what their hand is capable of doing.