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Author Topic: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??  (Read 17886 times)

Re-Evolution

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Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« on: July 21, 2004, 12:10:06 PM »
In the past someone made a post referencing a way to use a coke can to determine the amount and direction of lateral thumb pitch needed by holding a can and checking where your thumb points to.

Anyone know how this is done.


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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2004, 09:27:16 AM »

Works with Beer Cans too...

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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2004, 09:39:56 AM »
quote:
Have the customer grab the can naturally and extend and imaginary line out from their thumb to their fingers. If the line hits between the index and middle fingers then it's zero. Straight onto the index finger, 1/8 left, straight onto the middle finger 1/8 right, between the middle and ring finger, 1/4 right. After that, use your judgement.

 


I believe that The Author is correct. However, this doesn't work for everyone. For example, I point weakly at the index finger, so based on the above this could be interpeted as 1/16 left. (for Right Handers) However, I am RH and I require 5/16 left on a shorter span and 3/16 left on a longer span. The coke can is probably a good starting point but it's still all a trial and error thing. Probably depends on the flexability  of the thumb/hand. For me, I am a bit on the stiff side.

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livespive

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2004, 09:41:31 AM »
From LL's post a LONG time ago:

Just got Bill Taylor's book.
It is all in there and there are extensive posts here in drilling.
I'll try quick here.

Lateral thumb pitch.
Grab coke bottle, if one has thumb point at index finger= 1/8 lateral outbetween index and middle = 0 lateralmiddle finger 1/8 lateral under palmbetween middle and ring 1/4 lateral under palm.
Reverse pitch thumb Bill insists chart tells all4 1/4 span done in a relaxed way = 0 forward reverse pitch.
Each 1/8 inch longer leads to 1/16 more reverse.
Each 1/8 forward leads to 1/16 more forward.
Each of these settings is what Bill calls the 63 degree method between thumb and span angle.
Finger laterals he says are all comfort with no utility, standard is 0 right middle finger and 5/8 lateral right ring.(I don't see many drillers doing this.)Finger forward reverse he claims are a matter of utility, more forward more lift, more reverse less hit and lift.
Standard he says with proper thumb pitch is 0 for all fingertips.

REgards,

Luckylefty

Also:

Nope,

I'm using the Bill Taylor thumb pitch table.
4 1/4 = 0
every 1/8 more span = add 1/16 more reverse.
4 7/8 = 5/16 plus long thumb = 7/16 perfect!!!!
RE Bill Taylor = " How to fit and drill a bowling ball"

REgards,

Luckylefty

PS Luckylefty 4 5/8 span = 3/16 reverse - 1/8 short thumb = 1/16 ah perfect!
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JS

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2004, 12:21:25 PM »
I have a few questions on this topic.  If my middle finger span is 4 11/16 and my ring finger is 4 13/16, do I consider my span to be 4 13/16's (using the longer span).  If so, based on the above formula, with a span of 4 13/16 I should have a reverse thumb pitch of 1/4.  Also, by grabbing a can, my thumb was pointing between my index and middle finger so that would equate to a lateral pitch of 0.  Can the experts verify these for me.  Thanks....JS

ps.  What are the guidelines to determine a long vs. short thumb?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2004, 12:38:36 PM »
2 1/4 inch is dividing point between long and short.

Also I find most Bill Taylor pitches to have a little too much reverse for my taste and I have a 105 degree flexibility thumb.  (Medium flexibility)

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2004, 01:56:24 PM »
For me Bill Taylor's pitches have too much palm lateral.

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Pinbuster

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2004, 02:16:43 PM »
There is still only one way to correctly measure for pitches.

And that is using the adjustable measuring ball and throwing it to the pro.

The rest is all guess work and making the customer think you know what you’re doing.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2004, 08:26:40 AM »
If you’re a professional proshop and want to do the job right the first time, yes you need a $1000 tool.

Using the adjustable ball you can see the release and the customer can feel the release. You can show them how different pitches affect their release.

Why experiment around 3 or 4 times fine tuning when you can get it right the first time?  

The coke can test is at best an educated guess. In seeing thousands of hands measured there are far too many exceptions to those rules.

The only reliable way I’m aware of is using the adjustable ball.
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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2004, 10:20:46 AM »
quote:

so we can build a rocket to send a man into space, but are incapable of figuring the proper angle of a thumbhole without a $1000 tool?

that is a good one, PB...

 


I agree with King Of The Mill...For example, the last 3 months I have made several changes in my grip, span, pitches, etc. The driller would set up the $1000 tool and all would feel appear fine. Now add 15-16 lbs of weight and the ball and release feel different and not as comfortable as the weightless ball.

King recently changed my span, grip, pitches, etc. and he did it all by Email with information furnished by myself and with perfection without ever even seeing my hand. After a month of using this new grip, I have made only a 1/16" change to one finger. Did he need a $1000 tool? No, he only needed some basic information.

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Pinbuster

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2004, 11:13:01 AM »
Brickguy – Glad it work out for you.

You have to have the person being fitted throw the ball to you, so you can see in action what the fitting does.

We actually have 3 of the balls, one each of 11lb, 13lb, 15lb so that the customer can feel it with the proper weight.

But my coke can test says I need left pitch. If I put left in a ball it will tear off the side of my thumb, I’ve used it in the long past (20+ years ago) and it wasn’t pretty, actually pretty bloody.

I use ¼ right and ½ reverse. My span is 4 5/16  4  3/8, a relaxed finger tip grip.

I don’t know for sure but I would guess Taylor would say I need forward. Again been tried but I can’t get it off my hand unless I make the thumb huge.
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Brickguy221

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2004, 01:07:00 PM »
quote:
We actually have 3 of the balls, one each of 11lb, 13lb, 15lb so that the customer can feel it with the proper weight.

 


PB, my driller's ball is weightless. That's why I said that the driller would set up the fitting ball and it would feel good and then drill a 15# ball that way and it felt bad. Thank god we have people around like KOTM when the local proshop is our only option and that option didn't work.

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Doc Hollywood

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2004, 04:56:56 PM »
I have gone completely away from the manual and all the testing and have now gone to 1/2 forward and 1/4 left lateral on my thumb and the cut to to cut is 4 1/16 X 4 3/16.

I have really been able to relax my hand at this point.
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RSalas

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2004, 05:04:55 PM »
Is the information from the soda can test also in the IBPSIA manual?  The numbers look the same to me...

quote:
so we can build a rocket to send a man into space, but are incapable of figuring the proper angle of a thumbhole without a $1000 tool?


Ah, but there are quite a few people--some of whom may even be registered users of this site--who don't believe that we've *ever* sent anyone into space.  
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Lateral thumb pitches / coke can test ??
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2004, 05:47:12 PM »
Interesting.

We've got a driller around here who is getting good results with bowlers.

He uses his fitting ball and starts everyone with lateral OUT pitch in the fitting ball and if they drag starts to move them to 0.  Most of his clients have decent looking releases.  Except him!  He also has a bunch of honor scores that are actually pretty surprising as to me it looks like he releases about 8 different ways with no predictablility.

He says almost NONE of his clients end up with thumb lateral under palm(right for righties)  Bill Taylor says most people should be lateral under palm.
I'd call that a point of contention.

I can't imagine me being able to throw a ball well or hold on well withhout being somewhere near 1/4 thumb under lateral(left for this lefty) due to my thumb pointing in the coke bottle test almost at my ring finger.  But I was gonna swing by and see what his gizmo says out of curiousity.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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