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Author Topic: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb  (Read 6062 times)

Strapper_Squared

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Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« on: November 14, 2018, 03:45:21 PM »
Teammate has a unique release that results in just about every ball rolling over the thumb hole for at least a few revolutions.  I tried  a full roller layout, which made it worse.  Every ball he owns, has the pin above the fingers to PAP line... but flaring over the fingers doesn't seem to be the problem.  Any thoughts / layouts for rolling over the thumb?

I have a picture of an oil ring/track and a short video of him throwing a shot if it helps at all.

Thanks
Scott
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rkj4243

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Re: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 04:55:26 PM »
I would think that would be more his release, or thumb hole pitches rather than a layout concern.
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 06:58:43 AM »
Agree with the release..although at full speed it doesn't look terrible

https://youtu.be/7eVqyBhCXKQ

Directionally, which way would pitches need to move?
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Rightycomplex

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Re: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 06:39:55 AM »
its going to have to be a change in release. you can do things to counter act it like add more forward to the ring/ or more reverse to the middle, shorten his Pin to PAP, no pin down layouts, things like that. End of the day he's too "under" the ball or doesn't rotate it the wrist late enough.
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bergman

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Re: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2018, 08:11:23 PM »
Since his first few revolutions are rolling over his thumbhole, I agree that the ultimate solution is to work on altering his release.  If he was simply catching the outer edge of the thumb hole, then the drilling recommendations forwarded in Rightycomplexe's post
could help.

Another "fix" that has worked well is adding right lateral (palm) pitch to his thumb hole. However, this only works if again, he is catching only the outer part of the thumb hole.

Rolling over the thumb hole (and rolling a full roller release), is due to the bowler rotating their bowling hand SLIGHTLY clockwise (for a righty, counterclockwise for a lefty) at release.  This is actually pretty common with the 2-handers and any bowler who bowls thumbless, because as the hand gets ready to release the ball, this style of bowler will instinctively try to keep the ball from "falling off" the inside of their palm too early in the release. To counteract, they will often rotate their hand clockwise (righthander) ever so slightly to maintain control, resulting in a full roller
release. Also, traditional bowlers who deploy a large degree of lateral spine tilt at release will often rotate their bowling elbow (exaggerate it ) inward, causing their bowling hand to rotate clockwise at release, causing the ball to either roll over the thumb hole or resulting in a full roller release.

The best solution is to work on using more counterclockwise turn, but only with the wrist. Hard to do but with a lot of practice, it can be done. I have used this technique with 2 of my former full roller students with great success.

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bowling_rebel

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Re: Layout for Rolling Over Thumb
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 12:24:53 PM »
Interesting.
I've recently switch from thumb to no-thumb. My track is going over the middle finger to the inside of thumb hole (if I try throwing a ball with a thumb hole). I've been trying to figure out how to lower track off of finger hole and increase axis tilt.

Quote from: bergman on November 16, 2018, 08:11:23 PM
Since his first few revolutions are rolling over his thumbhole, I agree that the ultimate solution is to work on altering his release.  If he was simply catching the outer edge of the thumb hole, then the drilling recommendations forwarded in Rightycomplexe's post
could help.

Another "fix" that has worked well is adding right lateral (palm) pitch to his thumb hole. However, this only works if again, he is catching only the outer part of the thumb hole.

Rolling over the thumb hole (and rolling a full roller release), is due to the bowler rotating their bowling hand SLIGHTLY clockwise (for a righty, counterclockwise for a lefty) at release.  This is actually pretty common with the 2-handers and any bowler who bowls thumbless, because as the hand gets ready to release the ball, this style of bowler will instinctively try to keep the ball from "falling off" the inside of their palm too early in the release. To counteract, they will often rotate their hand clockwise (righthander) ever so slightly to maintain control, resulting in a full roller
release. Also, traditional bowlers who deploy a large degree of lateral spine tilt at release will often rotate their bowling elbow (exaggerate it ) inward, causing their bowling hand to rotate clockwise at release, causing the ball to either roll over the thumb hole or resulting in a full roller release.

The best solution is to work on using more counterclockwise turn, but only with the wrist. Hard to do but with a lot of practice, it can be done. I have used this technique with 2 of my former full roller students with great success.
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