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Author Topic: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help  (Read 12067 times)

mfhames

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Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« on: February 12, 2010, 02:44:44 AM »
I started drilling bowling balls this year for people after buying drilling equipment. I have drilled around 30 balls with no complaints. I drilled a Mutant Cell for a bowler that really spins the hell out of the ball. I figured the Mutant Cell being an aggressive ball I would put a 5x3 drilling with 4 1/2” pin buffer.  First he said the ball was going to long so I sanded the surface to 500 abulon.  The ball now hooks  a little sooner but still goes long. I don’t think the ball is burning up because I see the ball is going long with a little break on the backend.
The weights are straight up with about 1 oz of top weight. PAP is 3 ½” over and 1” up. Pin is next to middle finger, CG is center of grip, with the MB on the VAL. He really does spin the ball a great deal generally pointing the ball at the pocket.

Would you have used a different layout for this type of bowler?
Where would you place a balance hole to have the ball start moving earlier around mid-lane?
Should I have used a drilling of 3 3/8” with the MB on the Val?

I am thinking of placing a large balance hole  2  1\4” down the VAL from the PAP to get the ball to move earlier.

Thanks
BowlerMike
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dballz

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 11:51:12 AM »
have you looked at the x-hole topic that Mo Pinel has on their website? its where he draws a line from your pap to the mass bias and then breaks it up into 4 areas of placing an x-hole. you may be able to do a 1" hole on what they call the P3 locator and that might help out the reaction. 5" may have been a little long, but i dont know the persons speed either. if it is slower, then 5" may have been just fine. let us know how it goes.
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JohnP

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 01:55:26 PM »
I asked a similar question to Mo at bowlerschat.net.  My question and his response are below.  If you try his suggestion, please post the results.  I'm still looking for a ball at a favorable price for my customer.  --  JohnP

quote:
I have a customer that throws a high speed spinner.

17 - 18 mph on Qubica
PAP - 4 5/8" X 11/16" up
Axis tilt - 35 degrees
Axis rotation - ~75 degrees
Rev rate - Unknown, I'd guess maybe 250 - 300, but definitely speed dominant
Pattern - Kegel Middle Road, but he also wants to bowl some regional PBA stops

What MoRich ball would you suggest for him. I'm not sure I can talk him into buying another ball, so I won't ask about layout until after the ball is in hand. I may have to find one used and plug/redrill it. Thanks -- JohnP


 
quote:
Older MoRich balls that fill the bill are the 'Ntense LevRG, the Awesome Revs, or the Seek and Destroy.

The best ball available is the mania, which comes out Monday. The mania video is on the MoRich Bowling facebook page.

My suggested layout for this bowler is easy. It's 20* / 4 1/2" / 30* with a P3 or P4 hole back to 1/4 oz. negative side.

 
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mfhames

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 02:16:43 PM »
Speed is 16 mph.

Thanks
BowlerMike
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JustRico

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 11:37:27 AM »
Most low track or spinners type players need help in getting the ball started reacting sooner. My guestimate is that using a 5" pin to PAP is a little weak for the bowler. If the flares are to tight, surface is only going to be a band aid. Adding a larger extra hole, down the VAL, might increase the flare to get it to react sooner on the lane.
I would have suggested using a stronger layout, something closer to leverage or 3 3/8" from PAP...even possibly placing the pin in the palm (Rico).
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mfhames

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 06:21:16 AM »
I would have to agree with JustRico. After watching the bowler for a few weeks I can tell the bowling ball goes way to long hitting the pins with no power. The bolwer actually throws the ball good enough he should be stirking with the ball but ten pins all over the place. He is a league bowler and on fresh oil all the time.

I will ask the bowler to sell the ball on Ebay, take a small hit on the price of the ball, and redrill using leverage or a pin on 3 3/8.

Learning to drill balls is a work in process but learning alot by reading every post in this forum.

Thanks JohnP amd JustRico.

BowlerMike
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 06:33:09 AM »
Yeah, low trackers usually have troble getting the ball into a forward roll. They create revs rather in a sense of spin - which lets the ball skid very long. Big trouble on long/heavier oil.

For such players, a strong layout like stacked leverage is IMO a good option. A strong cover and a low RG core with a big differential is also helpful, a strong MB can also help get the core into a stable roll quickly, esp. when higher speed is involved. Adding surface can also help, but this also bears the risk that an inpropely drilled ball just bleeds energy too early due to friction, so I'd rather chose a strong ball basis, set it up for the player and then make surface adjustments for final fine tuning.

At its day, I remember MoRich's Total Shock & Awe to be called "spinner's dream ball" - and I have seen many low trackers using Mo's equipment (also more modern stuff) successfully - where higher trackers are already retreating to mild balls due to the earlier reaction through the different release.
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pro shop guy

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 06:43:09 AM »
Rico drilling  work wonders for lower track players! My wife is a spinner and drilled a NTense LevRG with the pin up v/s a AZO Pearl (rico'd) and the AZO actually reacts better than the Ntense...not because of lack of oil.....just gets into a roll nicer. I suggest Rico!
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JohnP

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Re: Spinner's Dream Layout - need help
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 10:28:13 AM »
quote:
I'm sort of a spinner (really low track)


The position of the track, which does affect the position of the PAP, does not tell you anything about whether a bowler is a spinner or not.  You HAVE to determine their axis tilt, which is dependent ONLY on the diameter of their first flare ring.  I have seen bowlers with a low track, say 4" over on the midline, who track almost the entire diameter of the ball.  Definitely not a spinner.  To learn how to measure axis tilt, see the Unofficial FAQ sticky at the top of the Miscellaneous, Bowling Related forum.  --  JohnP
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