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Author Topic: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??  (Read 20425 times)

RotoStorm864

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left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« on: March 10, 2009, 04:11:16 PM »
hi all. first time using the site and i need some of the guru's advice..lol.
i just had my stuff changed from 3/8 rev no leteral to 3/8 rev 3/16 left. while it feels pretty good i was just curious what the benefits are. my driller said with my long span and very long thumb it would help me stay behind the ball better. my span is 5 3/16 and 5 5/16. what i really want to know is the advice he has given me accurate?

 

lsf_21

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 12:25:26 AM »
i went from an 1/8 left to an 1/8 right(left handed)
and it helped me stay behind the ball, have a loser grip, and get out of the ball quicker and i have bowled much better
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RotoStorm864

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 01:14:48 AM »
ttt

tenpinspro

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 04:31:46 AM »
Hey stormwick,

Our lateral pitches on our thumbs help (sometimes) dictate "how" we come out of a ball.

These apply to right handed bowlers (reverse for LH).

right lateral (aka palm pitch) - allows the bowler to rotate counter clockwise, creating more of the standard 3/4 or semi roll (aka handshake release).

zero lateral - allows for a bowler to stay up the back of the ball for more end over end roll.

left lateral - typically used for full roller and backup ball releases because the thumb/hand wants to rotate clockwise thru release.

We use these different angles or pitches to help a bowler release in the direction that he/she wants or needs.

There are many exceptions to these guidelines as we can apply the correct amount of reverse pitch which allows our thumb to exit first and then the hand can rotate in any direction desired.

In your case, typically left lateral will hold us in the ball longer causing us to stay "behind" the ball longer.  With your current pitch, you may find it a little difficult to "come around" the ball when you want.  Unfortunately, what I've learned is that most bowlers or decent athletes adapt to whatever pitch they have (whether right or wrong).  If they have left lateral, they'll simply learn to throw the ball more behind it because it doesn't allow them to go around it and vise versa.

Hope this helps explain some...
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azguy

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 06:17:45 AM »
My thumb is Left ( I'm a RH ). It has little to do, for me, with stay behind/come out early, but it has to do with my old beat up smashed thumb just doesn't bend that way easily. I have done the RL for some balls and there's a pain in my joint nearest the palm. Again, my thumb has been smashed several times. For me, it's a matter of comfort. There's pain in the joint when I go RL, so for some of us it's a comfort thing more than a release thing.

IMO, you can read and talk to anyone/everyone but in most sports it come down to a point of comfort. If one is not comfortable in a stance, swing, grip then the action will not be smooth, steady and there fore will not be the best that person can do. Just as we try to 'fit' the ball in a span, then IMO, the pitches should also be to 'fit' and not just one way "because that's the way it's always been done".

I would never argue with Rick and he has probably forgotten more than I will ever know, but this is JMO,
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JustRico

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 08:58:37 AM »
As far as pitch in the thumb hole, it should all be based on the bowlers entry angle into the thumbhole.
If you take a bowler's hand and assuming the span is correct, whatever angle the bowler's thumb wants to go into the thumbhole is the bowler's 0 pitch. Any deviation from this angle is going to alter the way the thumb will want to release, primarially speed and angle.
Before reactive resin, it was a general rule of thumb that bowler's had pitch angled toward the palm. This was to enhance a slower release speed, as well as the thumb staying in the ball more through the release, creating a right to left rotation or the ball being fed into the lane towards the pocket.
As fitting has progressed, it has gotten away from this Bill Taylor type of theory and more into a fitting process of comfort, as well as one that is used to alter or adjust a bowler's release.
If you base off the bowler's 0 pitch angle, adding more reverse pitch will speed up the release off the bowler's pad. The more angle added in a lateral sense will alter the rotation speed and hand angle. Right or palm will keep the thumb in the ball longer through the rotation and creates more side rotation. Left pitch or away from the palm generally will allow the bowler's hand in a more behind the ball position longer and can speed up the release speed. As a rule of thumb, any deviation of 1/8" lateral pitch effects reverse pitch approx 1/16". So if you add a 1/8" palm, you should also add a 1/16" reverse to accomodate angle and speed.

All pitch or angle should be based off a proper span, as well as the angle the bowler's thumb wants to enter the thumb hole. Deviations affect release speed and angle. Span dictates pitch, pitch should not dictate span.
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chun914

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 10:07:46 AM »
How do you you determine the correct lateral pitch to start with ?

tenpinspro

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 12:23:27 PM »
quote:
How do you you determine the correct lateral pitch to start with ?  


There were a couple of "old" ways used that come to mind.  One was the old coke bottle test (wrap your hand around a coke bottle and look at where and how your thumb meets to the fingers).  I used to have a bowler grab my wrist and the hand basically takes the same position (this was what was taught at the time).

These days, I utilize more of the bowler's track or watch the bowler and that can tell me how he/she is releasing a ball.  Due to physical ailments (arthritis, work injuries..etc), pitch can help with comfort as azguy has stated but I've learned studying bowlers that we tend to have a preconceived notion of "how" we should release a ball.  Somewhere in our brain, we have trained ourselves to this which I define as "muscle memory".  To "un-train" the brain usually requires a fair amount of practice for some/most individuals.

Ever look at a guy in a bowl and wonder if you knew him/her but just wasn't sure?  After watching him/her throw a few shots, you recognize the approach and delivery which then helps you remember him/her.  Then there's your friend who quits for years and comes back and they tend to look the same as before when they used to bowl.  Every individual will tend to have their own interpretation of the "correct feel" of throwing a ball and this is what will present itself.

Based on this, I utilize pitches to allow that bowler to execute accordingly.  How we hold or sit in a ball (with pitches) does not necessarily mean we will throw it that way (part of my exception rule).
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"El" Presidente of the Legion



Edited on 3/11/2009 12:35 PM
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Co-Founder - Tag Team Coaching
"El" Presidente of the Legion

JessN16

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 12:35:18 PM »
I'm 1/8 left (away) in my thumb and have no discomfort. If I go 1/8 right (palm), it doesn't change my delivery very much but I start getting pain at the base of my thumb and also in both the posterior and anterior branches of my radial nerve. My issue has to do with thumb flexibility (i.e., non-flexible thumbs, a former driller pf mine tells me, tend to require left lateral). I was Coke bottle-tested and grab-the-driller's-wrist-tested to get this measurement.

Jess

Edited on 3/11/2009 12:36 PM

chitown

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 06:07:36 PM »
I've done a lot of experimenting with different lateral pitches and have come to one conclusion.  I have one lateral pitch (3/16 right lateral) that doesn't cause any blisters or sore areas on my thumb.  I'm a right handed bowler.  If I use any other lateral pitch I develop sore areas or blisters on my thumb.

I believe that lateral pitch should be used for comfort only.  I don't feel that lateral pitch should be used to alter a specific type of ball roll.  It should be based on comfort.  





Edited on 3/12/2009 8:11 AM

chun914

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 09:50:06 PM »
Thanks all, I have just re drilled a old ball with different lateral pitch.

Ball #1 : 1/4 right (palm)
Ball #2 : 0

I can throw both without bad effects, but seems i'm developing much more sore areas on the inner part of my thumb using ball #2 (first joint and near nail side). Does it mean i need right pitch ?

strikealot

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 10:02:47 PM »
i have experimented with lateral changes aswell...i tend to track higher with either pitch, i do have more side roll with rt lat and i do carry better with rt lat...but i like the feel of left because i clear the thumb hole easier and can get the thumb hole tighter and still get out of the ball...
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RotoStorm864

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 12:34:12 AM »
thanks everyone. i have noticed that the left actually helps me get around the ball more. i've always been weird though..lol. like i said it doesn't feel bad i just wanted to make sure i wasn't doing something that might hurt me down the road as i have only been bowling a couple years, but i already carry a 205 avg in 2 leagues. i know that's not much nowadays but something i'm kinda proud of. thanks again for all the help

chitown

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 08:18:55 AM »
quote:
Thanks all, I have just re drilled a old ball with different lateral pitch.

Ball #1 : 1/4 right (palm)
Ball #2 : 0

I can throw both without bad effects, but seems i'm developing much more sore areas on the inner part of my thumb using ball #2 (first joint and near nail side). Does it mean i need right pitch ?


If your developing sore areas on your thumb with ball #2 then you probably need right lateral.  In my opinion, ball #2 is not the correct type of lateral for your hand/thumb anatomy.




chitown

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Re: left pitch in thumb for a righty..what are the benefits??
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 08:22:02 AM »
quote:
thanks everyone. i have noticed that the left actually helps me get around the ball more. i've always been weird though..lol. like i said it doesn't feel bad i just wanted to make sure i wasn't doing something that might hurt me down the road as i have only been bowling a couple years, but i already carry a 205 avg in 2 leagues. i know that's not much nowadays but something i'm kinda proud of. thanks again for all the help


I'm surprised that left lateral allows you to come around the ball more.  For me left lateral prevented me from coming around the ball.  Hey if it works for you and doesn't cause any pain then that's all that matters.