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Author Topic: Losing tilt  (Read 5373 times)

lefty50

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Losing tilt
« on: September 01, 2016, 01:10:07 AM »
Puzzled... 

I believe from measuring that I have about 12 degrees tilt (FYI...) PAP is 5x1 these days, Revs are 225, and speed off hand is 15. Left handed, ball in question is drilled with pin just above and left of ring finger with Cg slightly kicked and hole on PAP.

Question:

I have a Revolt Havoc that just won't do anything, very little bend, very little change throughout all surface adjustments. I've been told by a pro shop staff member who watched me throw it that I need to "put that ball away because that core/cover combo refuses to lose tilt". No other explanation... It's the core/cover combo.

Now, the Revolt Havoc is a fairly strong ball, and it's drilled with a layout I use often. It's low Rg also. I don't know how to interpret the losing tilt comment...
Surface? (Tried them all)
Layout? - What layouts promote losing tilt faster?
Is it for lack of a better term a "characteristic" of the ball?
As always, feedback appreciated.
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SVstar34

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 01:34:29 AM »
Pin-pap distance is the main thing to look at for the layout.

Symmetric cores retain tilt longer with distances greater than 3 3/8 and burn tilt with shorter distances.

Opposite with asymmetric cores, they burn tilt quicker with longer distances.

It is a little odd that you're having that issue with a Revolt Havoc, it's definitely a strong ball. Mine needs some oil to work well. With your slower speed and lower rev rate, maybe the Revolt Havoc just isn't a good match for you.
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SVstar34

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 01:36:59 AM »
I've personally had more success with my Havoc when I really get around the ball. But I think that's more a product of my environment as even when I do have enough oil in the heads to throw it, both centers around me have a lot of friction
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Impending Doom

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2016, 09:34:16 AM »
Personally, I would think you would need a smaller Val angle (pin up higher) to get the ball to respond to friction better. Unless you're bowling on 43 feet or more, the ball is just very early and smooth.
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lefty50

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 12:14:57 AM »
Thanks guys, all good points that I wanted to hear. Took it to practice today and definitely would call it early, smooth and best if I come around it. I see what u r saying. I also appreciate the smaller VAL tip.
Many thanks, we'll make that adjustment on the next ball. For my style, this one's not a match.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 12:36:57 PM »
For Motiv videos, I like Justin's videos. Usually on strong symmetrical balls I try to go 70x5x70 like his second drilling, but even for me, it looked too early on that ball
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lefty50

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2016, 03:18:06 PM »

Wondering... I've always hated asyms... I wonder if part of that is the pin to pap issue for asyms, since I tend to keep my pin-2-pap around 3.5 to 4. and thinking further, Wouldn't the pin-to-pap difference for affecting tilt between asyms and syms lead to the statement that dual angle drills aren't the same for the two types...? Hmmm.
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JohnP

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 02:43:33 PM »
Absolutely, that's why quite a few bowlers don't do well with asymmetrics.  --  JohnP
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lefty50

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2016, 03:05:08 PM »
Ok. Here's a follow-up question... Not getting hung up on dual angle, but just trying to see if the pieces fit.
I typically see dual angle measurements specified with a 5 degree difference between sym and asym. I want to accomplish the following if possible:
- Lose tilt faster
- Maximize differential to accommodate my low rev style
- Shorten the final transition phase

So, I'd want to keep the pin 5 inches or more from my PAP, I'd want pin above fingers to max differential,and pin higher to shorten VAL angle (according to what I know, which could easily be wrong...

Does dual angle translate into that correctly and if not, what would you suggest?
Thanks in advance
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SVstar34

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2016, 04:31:22 PM »
If you're talking about an asymmetric cored ball then yes.

I'd look at something around 60 x 5-5.5 x 30. (Angles can be tweaked, for your situation I don't think I'd have the sum of the angles go above 90. Think 60/30, 50/40, 70/20)

Depending on your PAP, a shorter VAL angle almost always puts the pin above your fingers. There are some exceptions, but majority of the time it's like that.

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GlobalDestruction

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Re: Losing tilt
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2016, 12:51:36 PM »
Is the ball new or have you been using it for a while?  Did this happen all of a sudden?  Also, has the surface been adjusted at all? 
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John "Big Show" Brazel

West Palm Beach, FL

I NEED MORE COWBELL!!!
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