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Author Topic: Weaker layouts  (Read 9381 times)

BXTECH

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Weaker layouts
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:50:24 AM »
With todays balls (coverstocks) being so aggressive is it more practical to put a weaker layout on them? We discussed this while he was drilling up a raid for me. The way i see it that may be true on a ths, but when you get more on the competive end of this sport (which i am working on now) is that to your advantage? If i am way off the mark please clarify.I am a tweener 15-17mph, 300-350rr, prefer the swing shot.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 12:25:31 PM »
This actually seems to be really common with the pros.  I also have a lot of equipment with weaker layouts.  If a ball is already strong, you don't necessarily need to put a strong drilling on it to make it useful.  When you've got a strong coverstock and a strong core, the ball is going to rev up and hook pretty much no matter what you do.  You don't need to put an aggressive layout on the ball to kick out the corner pins on that kind of a ball.

The advantages of using weaker layouts on strong balls:  energy retention, control, and predictability.  Instead of reading the lane aggressively and moving hard off the spot like you'd see with a strong drill, a weaker drill lets the ball make a more gradual transition and roll off the spot when it gets into the friction.  When the lanes start to dry up, carry down, or any combination thereof, the ball is going to be more predictable through the transition period and won't be as likely to get jumpy.  To take advantage of the weaker drill, you will probably need to use a little more surface than you would with a stronger drill.

Of course, there's still plenty of use for stronger drills.  Particularly on weaker balls, but even on strong balls.  It's all about matching up what is comfortable with your game and using it in the right situations.

bluerrpilot

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 01:45:52 PM »
Tougher shots, especially shorter ones, require more control of the back part of the lane. More often than not, a weaker layout is whats needed. There is more need to see the ball roll off the spot as opposed to snapping off it.
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BXTECH

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 01:54:04 PM »
Is it more practical to have an arsenal focusing more on the layout of the ball or rather the surface prep & core?
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gHatMan

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 01:57:41 PM »
one would think so.........is there a huge gap between a stong cover with a weak layout as opposed to a weak cover with a strong layout?

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Dan Belcher

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 01:58:29 PM »
In my opinion, your best bet is to stick with a couple layouts you like and feel comfortable with, then use ball choice and surface adjustments to adjust.  This is very common among the pros as well.

Sawuser

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 05:42:20 PM »
The raid is pretty aggressive, but it's highly polished as well. I personally wouldn't drill it up too weak even for a THS unless it's on the dry side!
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charlest

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 06:06:15 PM »
quote:
Is it more practical to have an arsenal focusing more on the layout of the ball or rather the surface prep & core?
--------------------
DEFEAT is only MOMENTARY!!!!!!

LONG is the way and HARD is the road to go from amateur to professional!!


Neither layout nor surface prep, nor core, but ball reaction.

After bowler's release,
Ball reaction = coverstock + core + surface finish + drilling.
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tdub36tjt

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 06:26:30 PM »
At least from my experience, when using a breakpoint in the friction, all but probably the shark hook more than a THS in my eperience. That is why a lot of times a weaker layout can help from what I have seen. I wouldn't say this is always the case but I think it is often the case.

bluerrpilot

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 06:32:50 PM »
quote:
In my opinion, your best bet is to stick with a couple layouts you like and feel comfortable with, then use ball choice and surface adjustments to adjust.  This is very common among the pros as well.


The problem you run into there is once you start bowling you cannot alter the surface. So as transion and change happens, you get stuck.

Charlest is correct. Its the ball reaction in the back of the lane that your looking for. The entry angle needed and from where on the lane is whats going to determine what ball reaction you need.
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themachine300

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 07:39:27 PM »
I use alot of balls with 5 1/2 - 6" to pap layouts they roll very nicely and don't snap as hard.  The weaker layouts clear the fronts very well even with strong surface finishes.  Everyone needs to have at least one.
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charlest

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 07:55:03 PM »
You can use a weak ball drilled normally or drilled strongly,
OR
you can use a strong balled drilled weak IF the coverstock allows you to use it on drier lane conditions.

On PBA telecasts,
we've seen Tommy Jones use a Clash, an Ebo medium-light oil ball, on dry-ish lanes
and
Many times, we've seen Chris Barnes put the pin over his middle finger on a strongish ball like the Rival or the Momentum.

Pick your poison, as long as it gives you the reaction you need.


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jjyokomizo

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 11:55:50 AM »
As I started reading this thread, I was wondering what determines a weak layout? Is it Pin/MB to PAP distance? Is it Pin location to the VAL? Let me know what you think and what a weak layout is for you. /// Jim


pin-chaser

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2008, 10:39:49 AM »
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After bowler's release,
Ball reaction = coverstock + core + surface finish + drilling
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Hmmm... not sure I agree with that statement

I suggest:
After Bowlers release,
Ball reaction Equals = surface finsh + drilling
The range of potential reaction = Ball Surface + Core
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Weaker layouts
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2008, 10:56:34 AM »
quote:
quote:
In my opinion, your best bet is to stick with a couple layouts you like and feel comfortable with, then use ball choice and surface adjustments to adjust.  This is very common among the pros as well.


The problem you run into there is once you start bowling you cannot alter the surface. So as transion and change happens, you get stuck.
I didn't mean use one or two balls period.  I meant just stick with a couple layouts on several balls with different surfaces.  For example, my Total NV and Gravity Shift are laid out pretty similarly (mass bias placement is the only real difference), but I keep the Total NV polished for a more skid/snap reaction and the Gravity Shift dulled for more midlane read and an arcing finish.  Both are strong pearls with similar drills, but very different movements on the backend because they have different surfaces on them.