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Author Topic: low rg and high diff question...  (Read 60804 times)

lefty50

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low rg and high diff question...
« on: July 07, 2015, 06:38:18 PM »
current specs.. Left hand, 250 rev, 16.5 off the hand, high axis rotation.

the following is primarily, but not totally, a med-hvy oil and up scenario question.

Several years ago I was told by members on this forum whom I trust that with my style of bowling (low rev, high rotation), I would always want a low RG high differential ball. That did and still does make sense to me since my favorite ball at the time was a storm Special Agent. I've always done well with high diff symmetrical balls, which makes sense. Any ball with a high RG lopes down the lane too long and never gets into a roll. Low differential ball are pretty much the same.

It seems to me that these days the vast majority of balls are higher RG and lower differential, but yet they are advertised as big hook balls, which flies in the face of what my style encounters in real life. The answer is either that they are no longer making the type of ball I prefer (few exceptions) or that the cover stock is so dramatically different that I no longer have the low RG high differential qualification requirement.

I should add that I have had nothing but trouble with asymmetric and will only buy symmetric from now on. I know that there are few balls out there like the Motiv Covert Revolt, but there are many others I would like to try based on their rating to give me some help in the rev department, but I just can't see a .047 or so low rg ball revving enough for me.

Which is true?
Thanks in advance

 

tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2015, 09:59:54 AM »
Actually, you have it backwards. You are the one saying "gospel", that Rg doesn't, and can't possibly matter to any style of player, or any miss in release. I'm saying that you can't make an absolute statement like that, because there are so many variables and so many different styles of players. If everyone threw the ball the exact same way, than you could argue that. The fact that you bring up variables one time, but ignore them at another time, is inconsistent.


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tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2015, 10:01:58 AM »
Again, 3/100 of an inch at the pins can be the difference of a strike and a single pin. Agree or disagree, Ric?
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

JustRico

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2015, 10:04:30 AM »
I'm saying there are many other factors that come in to play that are much more important but then again I don't know s**t from what you and lefty think so not sure why anyone wastes their time...he even stated if he doesn't get the answer he wants everyone else is wrong...

In the biggest scheme of things no I would not sit back and consider 3/1000" in effecting a strike as I can adjust the surface and flare...
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tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2015, 10:15:20 AM »
That wasn't my question.  At the pin deck, when the ball makes contact with the pins, can 3/100 of an inch,  or a 1/32, be the difference of a strike or a a single pin? I'm not saying anything about the ball itself other than where it makes contact with the pins.
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tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2015, 10:20:25 AM »
The other issue is, you are relying completely on a factor that has had testing done, that shows to change within as little as 8 shots or less. The surface of the ball is only the surface you apply to it for a short time. The abralon pads we use are only consistent for a short time. Variables that you are conveniently ignoring.  Surface of the ball changes, the core specs once drilled, do not.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 12:11:48 PM by tommygn »
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

kidlost2000

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2015, 11:05:21 AM »
Surface of the ball changes to the lane. It levels out from original fresh surface to a different surface based on the lane. So if the ball is at 1000 grit and thrown on a newer smoother surface the track will smooth out to a higher number say around 3000 or so over a three game period. It will not continuous change after there much if used on the same surface.  Now if the next day you go Bowl on some old wood lanes you would likely see the surface go back rougher.

3/1000 at the pin deck doesn't matter. If you think that's the reason your ball is leaving flat or ringing 10s then you have no hope.

If you think it matters go measure the lanes for their tolerances and see the differences from lane to lane. Then you can blame it instead of the rg,  diff,  int diff,  barometric pressure, day of the week, time of year,  or anything else that you believe matters. Bowling is hard enough without factoring in mental capacity.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2015, 11:34:34 AM »


3/1000 at the pin deck doesn't matter. If you think that's the reason your ball is leaving flat or ringing 10s then you have no hope.
 

LOL!!

Oh yeah, just a little FYI, but 1/32" is .032, or 3/100 of an inch. Just thought I would finally clear that up for you. 3/1000 of an inch is .003.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 12:15:08 PM by tommygn »
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

3835

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2015, 11:48:51 AM »
That box of popcorn didn't last long. Better go get another.

3835

kidlost2000

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2015, 12:18:23 PM »
You can get popcorn but I'm getting lunch….. Hope they don't short me 3/1000" on my drink
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

JustRico

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2015, 12:19:42 PM »
Ok now that's funny
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
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spmcgivern

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2015, 12:27:01 PM »
I just want to make sure I understand what all the hubbub is about.  Is this conversation trying to decide how much, if any, the Low Rg of an undrilled ball matters?  Or specifically in this case, a difference of 0.003" between two different balls with different core properties?

I am curious how many people know what the change is in the drilled low Rg compared to the undrilled low Rg of the same ball?  How much can the drilled affect this difference with layout and balance hole location? 

Some studies go into the overall effects of different drilling patterns along with balance hole location and then show what the final low Rg, differential and intermediate differential are.  One example showed how different drillings and balance hole locations had variations of final low Rgs with a difference of 0.017" and everything in between.  So for example, if a bowling ball had an undrilled low Rg of 2.488", the final low Rg, depending on layout etc., ranged anywhere from 2.487" to 2.504". 

So based on this, why do I care if the difference between two balls is only 0.003" when I can drill the ball to make that difference up in a small change in some component of the drilling?

3835

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2015, 12:28:16 PM »
I think the doctor shorted me 3/1000 of something when I was born...at least that is what the wife claims must have happened.

3835

tommygn

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2015, 12:45:55 PM »
I just want to make sure I understand what all the hubbub is about.  Is this conversation trying to decide how much, if any, the Low Rg of an undrilled ball matters?  Or specifically in this case, a difference of 0.003" between two different balls with different core properties?

I am curious how many people know what the change is in the drilled low Rg compared to the undrilled low Rg of the same ball?  How much can the drilled affect this difference with layout and balance hole location? 

Some studies go into the overall effects of different drilling patterns along with balance hole location and then show what the final low Rg, differential and intermediate differential are.  One example showed how different drillings and balance hole locations had variations of final low Rgs with a difference of 0.017" and everything in between.  So for example, if a bowling ball had an undrilled low Rg of 2.488", the final low Rg, depending on layout etc., ranged anywhere from 2.487" to 2.504". 

So based on this, why do I care if the difference between two balls is only 0.003" when I can drill the ball to make that difference up in a small change in some component of the drilling?

This conversion started out talking about the difference of the Rocket and the HyRoad, both in 15lbs. Rocket has an Rg of 2.54, and the HyRoad has an Rg, of 2.57 both with the same differential. The difference is .03, or 3/100 of an inch, or 1/32. Storm tries to design their bowling balls, so as after drilling, they don't change the core dynamics as much as what other shapes can do. I merely stated that with a Rocket and a Hyroad, both drilled the same layout, no extra hole, no IT thumbs, so very little manipulation of the core, that I see the Rocket shaping up a bit sooner, and gives me better angle through the pins, as to not 2-8-10 like I have with the Hyroad when getting it in the oil. The HyRoad is also a new one, not a 6 year old ball.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

spmcgivern

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2015, 01:02:51 PM »
The HyRoad is also a new one, not a 6 year old ball.

This seems to likely be the culprit.

kidlost2000

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Re: low rg and high diff question...
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2015, 01:03:07 PM »
I think the doctor shorted me 3/1000 of something when I was born...at least that is what the wife claims must have happened.

3835

Trying to pretend its the difference in wearing a regular vs a magnum condom?  I'd go with that lol
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.