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Author Topic: Mass Bias Placement  (Read 23716 times)

dR3w

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Mass Bias Placement
« on: March 10, 2015, 10:54:03 AM »
I've seen a few balls lately for right handers with the Mass Bias marker on the left side of the thumb.  I remember a time when the Ebonite drill sheets would say, don't do that.  What does that really do to ball reaction?

I would assume that if it is 6 7/8 from the guys PAP, that it would essentially stay in place and make the ball act like a symmetrical ball ... or is that wrong.  I'm also guessing that if it is even further than 6 7/8 from the PAP, that the ball can flare in the opposite direction. 

Are these wives' tales?  What is the typical thinking on this type of layout?

 

cheech

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 02:38:07 PM »
the mass bias marks a ball's preferred spin axis or PSA. the position of the MB relative to the PAP is indicative of what effect it has and since everyones PAP is different just saying MB left of thumb tells us nothing.

if you have any knowledge about the dual angle layout system, you draw a line from the pin through the mass bias then draw the desired angle to create the first part of your layout called the drilling angle. bigger angles will increase the skid phase. assumng you are accurately comparing two different positions of the MB by using the same pin-PAP distance, for righties this will move the mass bias further left. so you could say for the same bowler using the same pin-PAP distance, a mass bias further left will create a longer skid phase.

Ken De Beasto

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2015, 02:47:08 PM »
Doesn't mb to the left of your thumb for rightys mean that you have a thumb negative ball making it smoother??

dR3w

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 03:03:05 PM »
I understand the dual layout system fairly well.  I have used it, and read about it quite a bit.  It does somehow stop short of explaining everything, which is why I posed the question. 

If you look at the Hammer Gas Mask drilling sheet, and look at drilling #4

http://www.hammerbowling.com/res/uploads/resources/CTNH-043_Asymmetric_Core_Drill_Sheet_3.pdf

It gives the slightly vague explanation of "place the mass bias near the track".  I was simply trying to ask what effect that has.  I think it would be possible to put the MB near or on the track and have a drilling angle of more than 90 degrees, which is forbidden (not recommended), in the dual angle description.   With say a PAP that is up an inch, and a Pin in the grip center.

So I agree that for a "lot" of PAP measurements this will lead to a large drilling angle, and more length, but there appears to be something else.  As in a physical constraint that past the bowlers track will cause the ball to flare the other way.  As if the MB would move the "other way" toward the track, yet being on the track provides nowhere for it to move to ... as in putting the Major pin on someone's track.

So I was kind of asking, and apparently not very well, how does putting the MB near or on the track smooth out the reaction?  Does is circumvent it's purpose by basically not migrating ... hence making it behave more like a symmetric ball?  What if the placement is slightly past the bowler's track, can that cause big problems, like reverse flare?

kchays31808

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 09:23:37 AM »
I know this is an old feed. But, I can add to thoughts on the subject.

By placing theB in/near the track, the ball only migrates based on the pin placement. I.e. it only "rotates" on two axies like a symmetric core instead of three as an asymmetric core is intended.
The purpose of having an asymmetric core is to "shape" the hook of the ball.

The static weights of the ball control the z-axis of the rotation. How soon/late and how much weight is left or right.

The pin placement controls the y-axis. How much and quickly the ball "flaps"or rolls.

The MB controls the z-axis. So, you can change the shape of the hook.

earlyrolling

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 04:41:38 AM »
I am a right-handed bowler (PAP = 5" over & 1/2" up) and I recently purchased an asymmetrical ball with a large MB (.018).

1. Assuming I keep the mass bias right of my thumb, how does the hook shape change the closer the MB is to my PAP?

2. How does the hook shape change the closer the MB is to my thumb (= further from my PAP)?

3. What happens to the ball shape if I put the MB in the thumb (drill it out in other words)?

Thanks.

Impending Doom

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 10:38:18 AM »
1. Will roll sooner
2. Will roll later
3. I find it makes the ball very controllable since you are increasing the intermediate diff, thus increasing the midlane roll. When balls start to not be able to make it around the corner, I can use that and get in and still get midlane without it rolling too early and hard.

earlyrolling

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 10:47:58 PM »
1. Will roll sooner
2. Will roll later
3. I find it makes the ball very controllable since you are increasing the intermediate diff, thus increasing the midlane roll. When balls start to not be able to make it around the corner, I can use that and get in and still get midlane without it rolling too early and hard.

Thanks Impending Doom.  So to verify, you use the MB in thumb layout when you need to get in and still get midlane without the ball rolling too early and hard?

Also, with layout #3 (MB in thumb), does the ball roll fall somewhere inbetween that of layouts #1 and #2?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 11:09:33 PM by earlyrolling »

Impending Doom

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Re: Mass Bias Placement
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 11:36:06 PM »
It's not as angular as just right of the thumb because you're increasing the intermediate diff, and unless you have a monster hand, the pin is going to be above the fingers, increasing the total flare. Now I'm not saying I could go coast to coast, but it's not as much energy expended.