When you remove the mass bias, you are creating a bigger assymetry and make the mass bias very strong. When I've done that, vs kicking the mass bias left of the thumb, I get very heavy mislane roll and not much backend. It's almost the kind of move that I blgey with big intermediate diff balls. Network was drilled 50*4.5*30 and it never really went 40 feet then left turn. I'm betting the Contiuum is going to be similar with it's .029 intermediate diff.

So, there's my answer lol

Quote from: AlonzoHarris on June 16, 2018, 12:43:31 PM

So Symmetrics end up with their MB in the thumb hole or super close, right? So if you punch up an asymmetric with the MB in the thumb, wouldn't you treat the Pin-PAP the same as you would a symmetric?

To clarify we see Asymmetrics Pin-PAP differently when traversing between short and long pins, almost opposite of symmetrics. But if we put the MB in the same spot as where a symmetric ends up we equalized the third factor in the equation. So now a 5"x40 asymmetric would share the same thought process as a 5"x40 symmetric.

If I'm wrong, please tell me so and why.

There is a recent video on the radical facebook page where I asked Mo if he was referring to pin to pap distsnces for symmetricals and asymmetricals. So it seams that Mo has changed his stance on the difference between how asyms and syms roll. The pin to pap distances he gave up were also in the opposite direction of what I've learned based on tilt but they have a correlation with the theories in a recent storm article what happens when the lane transitions http://news.stormbowling.com/2018/04/19/why-is-my-ball-doing-that/

Really glad you mentioned this because that was the first thing I thought of when Mo said that.

Quote from: Gunso on June 16, 2018, 04:58:46 PM

Quote from: AlonzoHarris on June 16, 2018, 12:43:31 PM

So Symmetrics end up with their MB in the thumb hole or super close, right? So if you punch up an asymmetric with the MB in the thumb, wouldn't you treat the Pin-PAP the same as you would a symmetric?

To clarify we see Asymmetrics Pin-PAP differently when traversing between short and long pins, almost opposite of symmetrics. But if we put the MB in the same spot as where a symmetric ends up we equalized the third factor in the equation. So now a 5"x40 asymmetric would share the same thought process as a 5"x40 symmetric.

If I'm wrong, please tell me so and why.

There is a recent video on the radical facebook page where I asked Mo if he was referring to pin to pap distsnces for symmetricals and asymmetricals. So it seams that Mo has changed his stance on the difference between how asyms and syms roll. The pin to pap distances he gave up were also in the opposite direction of what I've learned based on tilt but they have a correlation with the theories in a recent storm article what happens when the lane transitions http://news.stormbowling.com/2018/04/19/why-is-my-ball-doing-that/

Good article. I'll admit I'm slightly confused how it pertains to my drilling question between asymmetric and symmetrics. But, it sheds light on an observation I've noticed in my own game. I'm more of a higher tilt lower axis rotation player. A friend of mine that I bowl all my leagues with is the opposite (more PDW roll). He can always play further right (both RH) than I can, whereas I have to start moving in to retain energy at the pins to carry.

 https://youtu.be/q5VRCH8Gz-E since it is up on youtube  now then my answer was mo's recommendations for pin to pap distances in this video. in a comment I asked under the video he answered that the recommended pin to pap distsnces was for both syms and asyms. so you should treat them the same according to him now.

when drilling directly into the mb you are making the assymmetry of the ball as much as possible. It might delay the axis from crossing the pin to spin line (theory is it revs up faster when it crosses the pin to spin line) but then again you are making the hook zone as short as possible with all that assymetry, therefore risking it puking out on you when playing any kind of angle, especially if you don't have the volume for it.

Thanks for the responses guys. Clears that theory up for me.

I should really watch the Track video with the Alias explained.