Author Topic: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop (Read 2953 times)

DP3 · « **on:** August 06, 2006, 01:28:39 PM »

For a high rotation player around 90 degrees, what would be the best way to acheive a hook/stop or roll out reaction with drilling. I know the "proper" way to do it is just stay up under the ball but that'd just throw me all out of any realm of comfort.

Would you suggest maxing out the flare potential with a strong pin & MB placement and a large x-hole on the PAP, or a negative pin placement with large x-hole. Or maybe some off the wall funky type drill that's going to give a more forward motion at the breakpoint?

All ideas are welcomed.
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

the pooh · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2006, 12:57:34 AM »

Dull reactive or particle ball,low pin(under fingers),strong pin(3 1/2 to 4 1/2 inches pin to pap),mb beyond the val or 0 to 25 degrees usually works.

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the pooh

Traumatize · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2006, 01:01:34 AM »

DP3, depending on how much length you want out of the ball before it stops, MB should be 0 to 15 degrees, definetly past the VAL. You will enhance the hook-stop by using an axis hole, but also by targeting it too. Bigger and deeper equals more stop. PM me with what ball your looking to try it on and i'll help you out a little more.
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Buffalo bowlers are the best all around in the country.

AMF Thruway Lanes Pro Shop employee, and I have no problem saying that I'm Officially a Ball Junkie.

BackToBasics · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2006, 09:19:19 AM »

What up Dee....Since you and I both have high axis rotation, we have similar matchup problems. In the past, axis leverage was the best way because it caused the ball to lose axis rotation very quickly. It worked better in low-med RG cores with high flare. Another layout that worked well was a strong MB ball with the MB close to the axis which IIRC is about 15*. It also has a huge hole on the axis. I had a Rule and a Robo Rule that worked well with that layout. Both were 5 and 6" respectively with the MB 1" from the axis.

The reason I've strayed away from them is that they are tough to carry as the shot progresses in. You know how quickly our shots jump to 3rd and 4th arrow. Those layouts lacked the angle to keep up with the scoring pace, which is why I started leaning towards particles. But as long as I could stay right with the break, regardless of how deep I was, they worked well at controlling the side/side and front/back wet drys. I actually plan one of those layouts again soon.

Lastly, although they worked well, I rarely saw the ball actually hook/stop. That required lots of friction for it to lose all of it's rotation. Only going coast to coast with clean backends would it it really stop.

Hope that helps and maybe I'll see you Tuesday cause I have to bowl.

DP3 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2006, 10:35:36 AM »

Thanks alot Tony & Matt. FYI the two balls I plan on experimenting with are going to be a Triple X Factor and Storm Razor Wire. Since the Triple X is a high mass bias ball, I'll definately try a 0 or 15 degree layout just to have something that's going to be noticably different than everything else I have.

Oh yeah, I won't be there Tuesday man....work calls

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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

Strokewiththelefthand · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:04:51 AM »

What's up DEE.

This is James. I have the same question for low track players. Sorry to steal your post but I was just thinking about that earlier this week after throwing my Power Drive.
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Snap yo fanga's,
Do yo step,
And you can do it all by yoself,
Let me see ya do it

Edited on 8/7/2006 11:00 AM

Nodsleinad · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:11:43 AM »

Use more ball than the condition needs. It wil check up early and Hook - Stop.

Nod
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LTBOCSFM

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2006, 02:14:20 PM »

DP3, the best way to get the ball to roll out is to "do it yourself"..!! Don't turn the ball as much, just flat hand the ball, similar to throwing at a 10 pin.

You're asking way too much here with all your side rotation. A ball won't roll out until the ball is rolling "end over end". Therefore, you must contribute to this with your release, because the more you turn it, the more it will hook on the backend. Good luck. =:^D

DP3 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:38:13 PM »

Another insightful chime in from T-God. Thanks. Tonight I tried working on a varition of my release to stay more under it with a friend of mine watching to make sure I did it right. I noticed that my track stayed in the same place but I got an even harder jerk motion out of the dry than I normally do. This was with a Classic Zone drilled 4 1/2" pin x 5" MB with the pin 1 1/2 above the midline, no x-hole. My revrate seemed to increase a bit, but that's probaly due to me exiting the thumb alot quicker. Even releasing the ball like I was, I think I might still need some help from the drill. I was also told by the man who taught me to drill that bigger and deeper X-holes should do the trick.

The main thing that had me pondering this idea are two ex college players who are friends of mine that had very similar games to myself and seemed to score very well on a variety of conditions. On the house shots, they both used to kill em with a hook-stop type reaction, one player would use a Vicious Particle or Vicious Pearl(I don't know the drills on either), and the other guy would be using a Savage or Green Triton playing more of a hook stop from inside rather than off the gutter.

When I get these balls I am going to try the Triple X Factor with a 5" pin to PAP and a MB placement 2 1/2" inches from my PAP. The Razor wire I might try 2" to PAP with a 1 1/8th weighthole on the PAP. Both might just do the trick, but just in different parts of the lane. What do you guys think?
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2006, 08:19:24 AM »

quote:
Another insightful chime in from T-God. Thanks. Tonight I tried working on a varition of my release to stay more under it with a friend of mine watching to make sure I did it right. I noticed that my track stayed in the same place but I got an even harder jerk motion out of the dry than I normally do. This was with a Classic Zone drilled 4 1/2" pin x 5" MB with the pin 1 1/2 above the midline, no x-hole.

One thing you didn't mention but which happens to me when I try to do that IS my ball speed drops. That will make the ball have that "harder Jerk" out of the dry.

So do you know if your ball speed dropped?

quote:

My revrate seemed to increase a bit, but that's probaly due to me exiting the thumb alot quicker. Even releasing the ball like I was, I think I might still need some help from the drill. I was also told by the man who taught me to drill that bigger and deeper X-holes should do the trick.

I'd guess that's so because those holes make the ball flare more AND earlier. That'll make the ball tend toward the hook and stop rather than be continuous, if it was continuous before the expanded weight hole.

quote:

The main thing that had me pondering this idea are two ex college players who are friends of mine that had very similar games to myself and seemed to score very well on a variety of conditions. On the house shots, they both used to kill em with a hook-stop type reaction, one player would use a Vicious Particle or Vicious Pearl(I don't know the drills on either), and the other guy would be using a Savage or Green Triton playing more of a hook stop from inside rather than off the gutter.

When I get these balls I am going to try the Triple X Factor with a 5" pin to PAP and a MB placement 2 1/2" inches from my PAP. The Razor wire I might try 2" to PAP with a 1 1/8th weighthole on the PAP. Both might just do the trick, but just in different parts of the lane. What do you guys think?
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

Let's know what was needed to make a strong peal and milder solid do the "Hook and Stop". I am very curious.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Author Topic: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop (Read 2953 times)

DP3

Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop

the pooh

Re: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop

Traumatize

Re: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop

BackToBasics

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DP3

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Strokewiththelefthand

Re: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop

Nodsleinad

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T-GOD

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DP3

Re: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop

charlest

Re: Wanted: Roll Out-Hook Stop