BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Ragnar on November 02, 2013, 11:53:54 AM
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I'm getting a used IQ Tour and am thinking of putting a motion hole in it. Has anyone tried one in any ball? Any feedback would be appreciated.
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I have done a Motion Hole in a RotoGrip Shatter and a Storm Modern Marvel. Both have yielded the same results in where the ball pushes an extra 3-5 ft and unloads on the back end. I've drilled 4-5 of them for others with mixed results. The biggest thing that I've encountered is that you want to use it on a cover that is conducive to back end motion. Strong solid covers will yield very little effect on the back part of the lane.
The Shatter I still throw to this day as it is a completely different motion than anything in the bag. The Marvel I sold as it wanted to dig in but the core would not allow it. The motion was very unfavorable on most conditions. The Tour Solid would be a decent ball to do it in but there are much better options out there for that.
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I agree with
I have done a Motion Hole in a RotoGrip Shatter and a Storm Modern Marvel. Both have yielded the same results in where the ball pushes an extra 3-5 ft and unloads on the back end.
My experience with the AMF Heist Pearl is exactly the same. This is my favorite ball as it's an absolute back end beast. The low RG core (2.47) means this thing revs up strong but the smooth pearl cover means it doesn't jump like crazy when it hits the friction. Carry and recovery are both excellent on the ball, which was only average before. The MOtion hole gives me a ball motion that I don't see much being a lower revs/speed stroker.
I think the MOtion hole lends itself to pearls and older balls, and I'm not the first to report that. Like James said, the Tour solid may not be the best for it if you want to see a dramatic change in the ball's motion.
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i have done it on a nano and i love the layout and i thorw when the lanes are very over/under
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I will be putting one on my AZO Fantasy X, super carbon particle ball. This ball is MONEY on toast, but I would like to be able to use it on more than just one condition.
I'll update this post once I'm done and have played around with it sufficiently.
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I tried the Motion hole on a AMF Mega Reaction thinking it would be perfect. It's not! It seems spastic now. I think I will fill the hole back in. I really would like to try it out but am afraid of another failure.
Freight Train?
Let me know your thoughts?
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I tried the Motion hole on a AMF Mega Reaction thinking it would be perfect. It's not! It seems spastic now. I think I will fill the hole back in. I really would like to try it out but am afraid of another failure.
Freight Train?
Let me know your thoughts?
Mo recommends not using this layout in strong asymmetric equipment and using caution in symmetric equipment where the core is not radially symmetric... in other words, the core couldn't be created by turning on a lathe.
That being said, I wouldn't use the layout on the Freight Train unless it's unusable as it is.
I have this layout on a Pursuit-S and the weak asymmetric Mission 250K and have to keep the surfaces quite dull (800 to 1500) and need to keep the surface fresh, otherwise they don't transition properly.
The types of slightly off pocket shots I carry with these balls is pretty remarkable...
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I will be putting one on my AZO Fantasy X, super carbon particle ball. This ball is MONEY on toast, but I would like to be able to use it on more than just one condition.
I'll update this post once I'm done and have played around with it sufficiently.
I'm not sure this layout is what you're looking for... I would think tweaking the surface texture would be a better direction to take.
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I tried the Motion hole on a AMF Mega Reaction thinking it would be perfect. It's not! It seems spastic now. I think I will fill the hole back in. I really would like to try it out but am afraid of another failure.
Freight Train?
Let me know your thoughts?
Tried it on my freight train. As this ball had no backend for me regardless of the condition. With the mo hole it had a more distinct backend reaction, but nothing drastic. I would, however, love to try it on an older pearl like my radar!
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I tried the Motion hole on a AMF Mega Reaction thinking it would be perfect. It's not! It seems spastic now. I think I will fill the hole back in. I really would like to try it out but am afraid of another failure.
Freight Train?
Let me know your thoughts?
Mo recommends not using this layout in strong asymmetric equipment and using caution in symmetric equipment where the core is not radially symmetric... in other words, the core couldn't be created by turning on a lathe.
That being said, I wouldn't use the layout on the Freight Train unless it's unusable as it is.
I have this layout on a Pursuit-S and the weak asymmetric Mission 250K and have to keep the surfaces quite dull (800 to 1500) and need to keep the surface fresh, otherwise they don't transition properly.
The types of slightly off pocket shots I carry with these balls is pretty remarkable...
+1000.... You must be sure that the core is radially symmetric and YOU USE THE LAYOUT!!!!!! I've seen way to many people just plop a hole in the back of the ball and wonder why it doesn't work. Asymms with lower INT DIFF and radially symmetric ball are the key in seeing a dramatic difference. Also, you must be willing to spend the time, energy, and effort to know your PAP, selecting the layout that Maximizes the effect, fine tune weight hole, and surface. I suggest you read bowlingchat.net and ask Mo Pinel himself before you invest in a ball. At least he can tell you what other balls outside of the Radical, Brunswick, DV8 that the layout and hole can be applied.
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I would like to try it on one of the new AMF pieces (Heat Stroke or Solar Flare) or on a Hybrid Hook. Think the SF is too strong?
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Doom,
I think you have a good idea but I would definitely do some research before drilling. Haven't seen a lot on the SF so I couldn't say yes or no. Trust, I'm not trying to be derogatory, I'm just trying to get people to realize a.) The ball still has to be THS friendly and b.) designing that reaction for a sport pattern is going to be difficult so be sure to do the research.
I've seen a lot of people with holes in the back of the ball thinking it was Motion hole without the layout. I had a customer come in with the CG 2" from the Center grip where the driller plugged the P2 hole and then put a hole in the back. Ball rolls like crap, I get it, weigh it up, its got 2 ounces of side and 1.5 Ounces finger. Layout wasn't right to begin with, plug the whole ball, get his PAP, drill it correctly, guy goes out and shoots 700 and he's a 180 avg bowler. That is why i'm so vocal about getting you PAP, And following the steps, doing the research and drilling the hole for what you need.
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I have used the motion hole layout on a Marvel Pearl, Uranium Buzzsaw, and Lights Out. The Marvel Pearl is first out of the bag on a not so typical house shot at the house we call the soup bowl. Great recovery if I miss out and great carry. Mo Pinel gave me direction as I had to shift the hole. He also told me to definitely start small and tune up with this ball. I stopped at one inch.
The Uranium is a good step down when the oil in the heads is not enough to please the Marvel Pearl. Again, the ball is clean in the front and looks like it eI not going to turn over on the back and then--- strong hook and great hit.
I have not spent much time with the Lights Out. It is weaker than the other two balls but I can not say much about hit and carry until I put some more games on it.
I have a Tour IQ and do not think that the layout would do much for what I see as the early roiling cover that give me an arc to the pocket and is excellent when the heads are adequate and the angle of play is more direct.
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Well, how strong is a strong Assym? 2.50 0.040 with an ID of .014
Is that considered a strong Assym, or are we talking in the .020's for ID?
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I will be putting one on my AZO Fantasy X, super carbon particle ball. This ball is MONEY on toast, but I would like to be able to use it on more than just one condition.
I'll update this post once I'm done and have played around with it sufficiently.
I'm not sure this layout is what you're looking for... I would think tweaking the surface texture would be a better direction to take.
Thanks J-Mac. I took my Fantasy-X out for a spin to get my flare rings aligned before drilling.......and upon futher review, I believe your assessment is correct. Surface change is the way to go. Ball performed magnificently since the last time I threw it. Of course I have added two new hand releases to my arsenal as well, since that last time.
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Would a Elite Espionage a Draco be a good candidate for a mo-hole? Or are they too aggressive a core?
I really want to try this drilling out. I have NO idea which balls are good choices or bad choices.
The Mega Recovery was a bad choice!
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Would a Elite Espionage a Draco be a good candidate for a mo-hole? Or are they too aggressive a core?
I really want to try this drilling out. I have NO idea which balls are good choices or bad choices.
The Mega Recovery was a bad choice!
It seems like the best choices have been balls in the lower to mid performance category
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Thank You! That information is helpful in my pursuit of the parameters that will work best.
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I put the MoHole in my old Sidewinder. I only have a 3/4" hole. That's all I need on my THS.
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I just found my misfit pearl from last season in the closet. Fortunatley, it was laid out exactly how it needed to be to accomadate a MOtion hole. I never loved the ball because it was so much more rolly than I anticipated. I thought perfect! I tried it today after checking to make sure it was flare safe. It was. I started with a 1" hole 4" deep, barely noticeable difference. I went all the way to 1 1/4" hole 4" deep. I threw it again. No stronger. Very small difference in backend. I took video of before, with the 1" hole, and with the 1 1/4 hole. Literally cannot tell the difference between the 3 on the same line.
This may not have been the best ball. I will try it again, but disappointing to say the least.
Matt
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Would a Elite Espionage a Draco be a good candidate for a mo-hole? Or are they too aggressive a core?
I really want to try this drilling out. I have NO idea which balls are good choices or bad choices.
The Mega Recovery was a bad choice!
It seems like the best choices have been balls in the lower to mid performance category
I really think that the ideal ball choice is dependent on more factors than many bowlers are taking into account...
I'm a slightly speed dominant bowler and can have carry issues when I start playing a larger swing shot. I've had success with high performance equipment and I was planning on using the hole in a Pink/Purple Karma I punched up but I like how it rolls without the hole...
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Would a Elite Espionage a Draco be a good candidate for a mo-hole? Or are they too aggressive a core?
I really want to try this drilling out. I have NO idea which balls are good choices or bad choices.
The Mega Recovery was a bad choice!
It seems like the best choices have been balls in the lower to mid performance category
I really think that the ideal ball choice is dependent on more factors than many bowlers are taking into account...
I'm a slightly speed dominant bowler and can have carry issues when I start playing a larger swing shot. I've had success with high performance equipment and I was planning on using the hole in a Pink/Purple Karma I punched up but I like how it rolls without the hole...
It looks like it also depends on the core design, I haven't given it a whole lot of thought like some others. The only way to get a real "answer" would be to talk with Mo himself
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I just found my misfit pearl from last season in the closet. Fortunatley, it was laid out exactly how it needed to be to accomadate a MOtion hole. I never loved the ball because it was so much more rolly than I anticipated. I thought perfect! I tried it today after checking to make sure it was flare safe. It was. I started with a 1" hole 4" deep, barely noticeable difference. I went all the way to 1 1/4" hole 4" deep. I threw it again. No stronger. Very small difference in backend. I took video of before, with the 1" hole, and with the 1 1/4 hole. Literally cannot tell the difference between the 3 on the same line.
This may not have been the best ball. I will try it again, but disappointing to say the least.
Matt
This layout should add length to the ball reaction... I've had to use a rougher surface to get the proper results both times.
Did you adjust the surface at all?
The core may not be an ideal candidate either...
You say it was an ideal candidate, how is it laid out?
Mo says - The pin position determines the starting reaction to build from.
Pin under = smoothest starting reaction - for more rev. dominant bowlers
Pin in, or beside (depending on PAP) = medium starting reaction
Pin over = strongest starting reaction - for speed dominant or rev. challenged bowlers
Add the MOtion hole to increase backend reaction and better pin action. Start with a 5/8" to 3/4" hole and, then, increase by 1/8ths" 'til you get the desired reaction.
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I have nothing to lose with the Mega Reaction so I believe i'll take the surface down to 1000 abralon and let you know how it rolls. don
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My pap is 4 1/2 over, 3/4 up. The misfit was drilled pin over ring finger, cg in grip center. I played with the surface a lot. Originally, the oob polish was on it, I went down to 4000 first, smoothed it out even more. Just messing around I went to 2000, smoother yet. Then I went 500 abralon with rough buff on top...best reaction of the surfaces, but no different than pre-motion hole.
Matt
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To simply everything, cores that are *wider* in the middle and skinnier at the top and/or bottom will yield the most noticeable change in reaction with added hole due to the hole being large enough to take out a good amount to create true asymmetry. These smaller, condensed cores that some of you are seeing no results with probably do not have a hole that is creating enough asymmetry to create a difference.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but was the Mo Hole not designed specifically for the Yeti core?
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Playing with the blueprint soft ware you can see where it is hit and miss on many different balls. If you have a pin even with the fingers or above adding a x-hole on your center grip or down slightly will work the same just liking adding a p3/4 x-hole. You now have another large hole near the thumb removing mass. It works on both symmetric and asymmetric cores
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrReZOPYdt8
I have a Misfit I'm wanting to test it on maybe this week.
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My pap is 4 1/2 over, 3/4 up. The misfit was drilled pin over ring finger, cg in grip center. I played with the surface a lot. Originally, the oob polish was on it, I went down to 4000 first, smoothed it out even more. Just messing around I went to 2000, smoother yet. Then I went 500 abralon with rough buff on top...best reaction of the surfaces, but no different than pre-motion hole.
Matt
Aren't the pin and CG supposed to be stacked? I don't remember and I won't pretend to know if this would make a difference. Mine is.
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My pap is 4 1/2 over, 3/4 up. The misfit was drilled pin over ring finger, cg in grip center. I played with the surface a lot. Originally, the oob polish was on it, I went down to 4000 first, smoothed it out even more. Just messing around I went to 2000, smoother yet. Then I went 500 abralon with rough buff on top...best reaction of the surfaces, but no different than pre-motion hole.
Matt
Aren't the pin and CG supposed to be stacked? I don't remember and I won't pretend to know if this would make a difference. Mine is.
Not stacked... essentially the ideal ball is drilled "label". You want the CG to fall on the grip center or the center line to avoid static weight issues
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My pap is 4 1/2 over, 3/4 up. The misfit was drilled pin over ring finger, cg in grip center. I played with the surface a lot. Originally, the oob polish was on it, I went down to 4000 first, smoothed it out even more. Just messing around I went to 2000, smoother yet. Then I went 500 abralon with rough buff on top...best reaction of the surfaces, but no different than pre-motion hole.
Matt
Aren't the pin and CG supposed to be stacked? I don't remember and I won't pretend to know if this would make a difference. Mine is.
Not stacked... essentially the ideal ball is drilled "label". You want the CG to fall on the grip center or the center line to avoid static weight issues
My pap is 4 1/2 over, 3/4 up. The misfit was drilled pin over ring finger, cg in grip center. I played with the surface a lot. Originally, the oob polish was on it, I went down to 4000 first, smoothed it out even more. Just messing around I went to 2000, smoother yet. Then I went 500 abralon with rough buff on top...best reaction of the surfaces, but no different than pre-motion hole.
Matt
Aren't the pin and CG supposed to be stacked? I don't remember and I won't pretend to know if this would make a difference. Mine is.
Not stacked... essentially the ideal ball is drilled "label". You want the CG to fall on the grip center or the center line to avoid static weight issues
I see that now by looking at this, thanks.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/9/9c/MOtion_Hole_Symmetrical_Instructions.pdf
My PAP is 4 5/8" over but I have a Brunswick Massive Damage with the exact layout in the picture for people with PAPs that are 5" +. What would happen if for me if I put the MOtion hole on it?
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Correct me if I am wrong, but was the Mo Hole not designed specifically for the Yeti core?
I'm not sure, but I think it was the other way around, the Yeti being designed to use with the MoHole. If you want an accurate answer, go to bowlingchat.net and ask Mo. -- JohnP