Post by: LuckyLefty on May 23, 2003, 06:05:58 PM
It is pretty accurate. Golfers with great grips that come to mind are
Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Sam Snead, all come to mind.
There grips are so good and so perfect for their anatomy that it is tough for them to play bad golf. I think of so many golfers that I have seen that are done before they get started. The advice to just put ones palms parallel to each other and the back of the left hand pointing straight at the hole has ruined so many golfers start it is incredible. (Frequently I read on this forum of people complaining of their slices). This is so often preprogrammed just because of the lax way they take their grip).
So it is with bowling. Thie difference is that in bowling it is difficult to see the grip within the hard confines of the ball. And yet many a game is held back because of errors in span and pitches that are inappropriate for a person's personal hand anatomy.
The perfect full span grip is defined so well by Bill Taylor in his book "Fitting and Drilling a bowling ball". In it he describes methods to determine the perfect span(middle of last and next to last joint to lip of finger insert or hole), perfect thumb pitches(forward/reverse are based on span), lateral thumb pitches(based on the coke bottle test)and differences in span length's for middle and ring finger(based on laying hand on ball and observing difference in lengths).
His method usually ends up giving a satisfactory result for supplying ideal elements of hold, lift and turn for most common bowling situations. Note most people end up following his method with some reverse thumb pitch(if span over 4 1/4 inches), some lateral under palm pitch(if right handed right pitch) (if left handed then left pitch) this element ends up supplying turn while the bowler throws with a straightish elbow position and straight or cupped wrist.
Now however we find many bowlers saying things like I want to have foward pitch on my thumb. My question is why? The usual answer is something like, "well there's a guy at my house who shot 300 last night and he uses forward". OOOOOO KAAAY? "What's that got to do with you?"
Another comment, "I want to have lateral out"? Why? "Well, I heard, Brian Voss or Kimbo use lateral out!". My response, "I see!"
To be continued!!!!
REGards,
Luckylefty
This
Post by: Zman on May 27, 2003, 06:58:54 AM
I look at Bill Taylors "rules" for picking out pitches and spans as a general guideline and then like to experiment from there depending on my feel in the ball to arrive at what works and feels like the ideal fit for me.
According to BT's charts I should have some reverse in my thumb, but I have 1/4 forward because that's what works and feels the best for me.
And it's not because of any of the exceptions to the rules like long, short, wet, or dry thumb, or felxibility issues in my thumb.
Still Bills stuff is the best starting point guidelines i have seen for getting a good overall 1st fit to work off of on someone.
His coke can test for determining lateral thumb pitch is right on though for me.
--------------------
Zman
You haven't seen real LOFT until you've seen me bowl
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 30, 2003, 06:09:58 PM
Exactly, his book is a great first drill and then go from there.
In the book he talks about how if his methods are used most end up about 1/16 off in span at most and then thumb pitches etc. are based on actual holding power and turn shown once the ideal "textbook" drilling is applied.
Now to continue my line of thought from above!
Points so far:
In golf there was the ideal grip (about 2 1/2 knuckles of left hand showing to the straight on observer(for the majority of people(not all)). This was and is practiced by the the best golfers of the past and again now. But for awhile some golfers found they were overturning or hooking the ball too much! As a result many of them started using 1 to 1 1/2 knuckle grips to reduce turn! Funny thing happened along the way was that at that time many of the teachers started teaching this same weak grip to all levels of players even those that couldn't overturn or hook a ball if there life depended on it! (all of this happened in the 70s mostly)
LATERAL THUMB PITCH
--------------------
Does any of this sound familiar to bowling? It should, because now bowling is in a similar phase. Bowlers are now trying to adopt many of the grip characteristics of the pros. Many bowlers are starting to go to lateral out and forward pitches of the thumb when their anatomy (as called for by the Bill Taylor tests) call for reverse pitches(due to span) and lateral under palm pitches as determined by coke bottle test. Many of these players couldn't overturn a ball if Pchee2 was helping them throw it.
An aside here( I am not Sawbones, nor his son(his name is HOSE). Why do I keep throwing in these golf analogies!??? The reason I do is because the anatomy of the two games is very similar. In golf the angle assumed by the back of the left hand when standing relaxed is the proper position to place the left hand and will lead to an effortless and golf swing that returns the club back to naturally neutrual or square with almost no effort or manipulation.
So it is with the coke bottle test. Where one's thumb points is unique and different for most but let's say over 90% of cases the thumb does not end up pointing to the index finger(lateral out). Also most bowlers are not guilty of hooking it or turning it too much!
In golf the problem wasn't really even one of overturning. The problem was really one of not having a strong enough grip (to supply forearm and club rotation)(in bowling the analogy being enough lateral under palm), and therefore the golfer sensing this on the way down would come in and swing or pull the arms to the left to get the ball started on line.
(The analogy in bowling being chicken winging). The bowler feels that he can not get the ball back enough if he swings his arm out away from his ultimate target(the pocket) and so therefore he chicken wings or pulls his armswing.
The proper lateral pitch (for his and your anatomy) instead allows the arm to pursue the intended starting line of the ball and feel(know) that the ball can come back. (Naturally another fault that will cause this lack of trust is not having the feet in the right place for the shot).
SPANS
-----
Now let's talk about the proper span.
One of the thing's Bill Taylor say's that I believe is one of the most important things said in the book is that the ultimate test of the proper full span he recommends is that in this full fingertip one will feel during the backswing that the pressure of the ball should be near the joint of the last pad of the finger.
On the downswing the pressure should then cover the complete pad!
Read that again if you will please.
Finger pressure in the backswing should be. Near 1/3 of pad close to jointline.
Legend X = pressure, . = no pressure
...TIP
|-------|
|.........|
|.........|
|.........|
|xxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxx|
|XXXXXXX|
_________
Joint line
Finger pressure on the downswing
...Tip
|--------|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|XXXXXXXX|
|________|
Joint line
Get it!?
The too short span leads to pressure on the whole finger pad on the backswing and pressure ONLY on the fingertips on the downswing.
This is the final dialing in process on finding span length in the Bill Taylor method! I have found this is easy to do with shims!!! Spans can be lengthened over a 1/16 th this way if one uses finger inserts.
MODERN LANE CONDITIONS and TODAY's DRILLING VARIATIONS
------------------------------------------------------
So why are SOME bowlers today going to Shorter spans than the Bill Taylor method, reverse pitch in the fingers, lateral out pitches for the thumb(even though the hand coke bottles for 1/8 lateral Under palm), and dramatic forward in the thumb.
Far different than the tables.
Great questions. For those who have never bowled on these tricky patterns put out the PBA I'll venture in to this, for our masters of the universe please bear with me!
The times I've bowled in PBA proams(one ladies, one mens's supposedly the shot for the tournament). has left me with this general impression.
The patterns are made to embarass the area bowler.
Characteristics are good amounts of head oil, OB to the outside of the lanes, very little hold area, a two or 3 board break area that will hit the pocket at 45 feet.
To be continued!!!!
REGards,
Luckylefty
Edited on 5/30/2003 6:36 PMLATERAL THUMB PITCH
Edited on 5/30/2003 9:50 PM
Edited on 5/30/2003 9:51 PM
Edited on 5/30/2003 9:55 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 30, 2003, 06:37:06 PM
-----------------------------------------------------
Continued regarding PBA and sport type patterns.
The result being that balls delivered with a ton of side turn, finger lift, and lots of retained energy at the break point LEAP of the Non buffered transition area and pursue all sorts of ending positions to the pins(not necessarily the pocket.)
How do I know? First time I came in after bowling about a 700 with my friends in some fun dollar matches and used the same leverage drilled equipment and shot about 450 in my home house(the one I bowled about 700 the night before. Next time out I brought some duller weighthole on PAP mild stuff and shot about 660 scratch. Same bowler similar execution!!!
What is going on in the pattern is the explosive move off the breakpoint from the buffed house shot with a crown. The power, turn, lift, and side roll created by the Bill Taylor drilling is TOO much for some. Such Esteemed posters as Kimbo has stated that with the new conditions she felt she had to change her sideroll from 60 degrees to 40 to 45 for the new conditions.
So what happens.
To reduce side roll many bowlers change their lateral thumb under palm pitch to 0 or even lateral out! In addition power bowlers who are having too much lift at the break point are adding reverse pitch to the fingers.
Both of these items designed to reduce side roll and lift however reduce the holding power of the grip. Bill Taylor says each 3/8 of reverse makes the span feel 1/16 shorter. I say each 1/8 inch of reverse makes the span feel 1/16 shorter(sort of like Bill's thumbpitch tables). Therefore if a person starts with a span of 4 1/2 and has 0 forward and reverse and now has .
REGards,
Luckylefty
To be continued again.
REgards,
Lucklefty
Edited on 5/30/2003 10:05 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 31, 2003, 08:35:16 AM
-----------------------------------
Therefore from the example above.
A person from above has a span of 4 1/2.
They decide to reduce lift and hold by adding reverse pitch of 1/4 to the fingers!
In my book the span now feels like a 4 3/8 span. THe amount of reverse pitch for the span should be 1/8. But the ball is no longer held as strongly so the bowler goes to 1/16 reverse.
Now the bowler also decides because of the sport conditions that they want to also reduce side roll a little so they change their proper anatomical lateral under palm of 1/8(as measured by coke bottle test) to 1/8 lateral out from palm.
This reduces side roll for many bowlers and but also induces a little chicken winging to get any side roll. HERE is the compensation for this. Many bowlers will now shorten span. A standard span with a lateral out for a person who's hand says lateral under does not lead to good turn. Howerver, if combined with a very relaxed span (maybe 1/4 under Bill Taylor measured span). Some turn can be reestablished for the bowler.
(In golf the similar adjustment was for the golfer to have a softer left elbow if he took a less than ideal strength grip , ie he took a 1 1/2 knuckle grip when his anatomy called for 2 1/2 knuckles he could still have adequate though slightly weaker rotation with this softer elbow). So it is with the bowler.
A shorter span coupled with lateral out for the bowler who's hand says lateral under reestablishes some rotation for the bowler. (not as much).
Final step to convert to this modern setup is getting the thumb it's necessary holding power. This will happen by moving the thumb forward by at least 1/8 for the lateral out(less holding power for this person who tests 1/8 lateral under), and another 1/8 forward for the shortening of the span 1/4.
To catalogue changes:
Spec..........Bill Taylor..........SPort condition drill
Span...........4 1/2...............4 1/4
Finger pitch 0...................1/4 reverse
thumb lateral..1/8 under palm......1/8 away from palm
Thumb for/rev..1/8 reverse..........3/16 forward at least!
THis set of changes on the right will straighten the axis rotation and supply less lift.
Do I believe most of us need these changes- no!! Most of us trying to average over 220 for the first time can easily go with standard Bill Taylor!! My opinion.
THumb holes and bevel
---------------------
Most bowlers today use a variety of holes, inserts or custom made thumbs.
Here are some thoughts on that.
Some sayings often heard.
Never use a tapered grip!
Never use anything but Urethane slugs!
Always use Urethane slugs!
Never use vinyl!
Always use vinyl!
Just a round hole works!
Never use an oval!
Always use ovals!
Never use bevel!
Always use bevel!
Never use a thumb straight device! It adds reverse pitch!
All sayings above are crap!
THe right answer is LOOK at YOUR thumb.
What shape is it?
Round? Oval? Tapered? Evenly? Or is it tapered just front to back?
Many people who have oval shaped thumbs use round thumbholes and then tape both the front of the thumbhole in line with the flat spot of the thumb, and then the back of the thumbhole in line with that.
This in essence creates your own manually created oval.
When I started out I used tapered thumbholes. Round tapered thumbhole.
I loved the feel of them and the heavy roll they gave me on the ball!
After a while I was talking to a famous bowler(who I greatly respect) and he stated "Never use a tapered thumbhole", "you will rub some place and then release early". I switched immediately to non taper and have been dropping non stop the whole time!
Now I think I have gleaned the important thing he said!!!
It is this!
"You will rub somewhere in the hole, and in response to that overcompensate and exit too early!"
This is true, if you rub somewhere in your thumbhole you will tend to start exiting early!!!! But where you rub is dependant on YOUR thumb shape and the type of insert you choose to match up with YOUR thumb!
You see I have an unusual thumb. I taper dramatically from front to back!!! And yet I have no taper from side to side!!!! NONE! Therefore any pre made taper either round or oval taper, taper equally on both the front and side. I don't need any side taper, none! This is the hang spot for me, side taper. Therefore I take it out. You are propably different, you must observe YOUR thumb shape.
For me two solutions to get the perfect fit.
1. A straight oval insert(mine was custom made from an ovalmatic jig),
with a thumb straight added. This device adds approximately 1/8 reverse to front of the thumbhole and yet supplies the front to back taper I need due to my extreme front to back thumb taper. (Yet it has NO side taper, which I don't need) I drill this at about 1/8 forward from what I intend my final front of thumb surface to be. For example, I drill for my 4 3/4 span 1/16 reverse and then when I add the thumb straight the effective surface is about 3/16 reverse.
2. The second method is a premade tapered oval, note this is tapered from front to back and then side to side! I take the insert and turn upside down and take out the side taper with a bevel knife from the bottom of the insert!!!! Due to front to back taper I drill this insert about 1/16 forward from where I would drill a straigt oval. In my case 1/8 reverse versus my expected 3/16 ending front surface position. (Drill bit goes in at 1/8, front surface of thumbhole is actually 3/16 reverse due to taper, note less taper than thumb straight).
This is working wonders for my holding power!
The key to this all is to look at your thumb.
Carefully note it's shape. Take measurements to decide am I tapered, am I oval what am I.
If you are dropping, try vinyl or reducing bevel. If you are hanging try Urethane or add bevel before that.
If you are pulling add side bevel,if you are lofting and have pain under flat surface of front of thumb add front bevel(see beveling tips I've learned from Mo Pinel in this section). If you want to add more front forward pitch to the thumbhole than the Bill Taylor tables guide you to. Then add bevel to the front edge of the thumbhole to prevent damage to the sensitive area of nerves near the top of the thumb!!
Note Del Warren a great bowler, I understand uses forward that is right off the caharts!!! I also under stand he couples this with a ton of front bevel.
THe actual words I have heard is that he hacks the front of the thumbhole all to hell!!!!. Proper reverse pitch only moderate bevel is needed, dramatically forward pitch in relation to the tables always extra bevel needed for the same individual who did NOT need bevel at a more reverse setting! Note same person, different amounts of bevel needed based on pitches of the thumb introduced!
ANY PAIN on front of thumb, WARNING nerve damage occurring, MAYDAY add front bevel to pain gone!!!!!
My thoughts on proper fit! Hope this wasn't too boring, I'm sleepy now!!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Edited on 5/31/2003 9:05 AM
Edited on 5/31/2003 9:16 AM
Edited on 5/31/2003 9:24 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 04, 2003, 12:23:35 PM
Even though the middle finger is longer. The breakeven point is 5/16 according to Bill Taylor.
If the middle finger is longer than the ring finger (when hand laid on the ball) by 5/16 of an inch then the spans are equal. Don't look equal!!! (Middle finger looks longer) if the middle finger is 3/8 longer than the ring when laid on the ball then middle finger span is longer.
Can you Rev,
As we have discussed together coke bottle test is based on where the TIP of the thumb points when grabbing a cylinder. Not the main body of the thumb.
If the tip points between the index and middle finger that is a 0 lateral pitch.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: alex on June 04, 2003, 03:45:07 PM
Post by: T-GOD on June 04, 2003, 04:06:17 PM
Whereas with this type of thumb, more bevel and/or reverse pitch is necessary. This kinda throws out all the rules in the rest of the book..!! In any case, Bill Taylor is the smartest man in bowling. =:^D
Post by: Jerry Weller on June 07, 2003, 03:41:12 AM
As for forward pitch, I read a BT column in Bowling This Month and you know what he said? Too many ball drillers are giving every bowler reverse pitch in their thumb and some bowlers NEED forward pitch.
I'm shooting the highest scores of my life since changing to using forward and right pitch in the thumbhole so for me at least those pitches seem to work better. I'm not totally satisfied with my current grip and will continue to fine tune it, but I think forward pitch was a change in the right direction for me personally.
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 07, 2003, 07:33:18 AM
It sounds like you were closer when you started than today.
I'm also a points pretty strongly under palm, I point towards my split between ring and middle finger. For me that means 1/4 under palm. For you pointing at ring finger it means 3/8 under palm.
Now Bill Taylor never meant for this to be rigid. He addresses the fact that some people when assuming these perfect anatomical pitches get either too much side roll or too little. Your ball driller may have seen this or maybe you complained about some portion of your roll. Bill Taylor acknowledged these possibilities and gave the solution. Less side roll you move from your ideal point of 3/8 under palm to less under palm. Maybe 1/4 or 1/8 under palm.
REverse pitch off the tables for 4 1/2 inch span is 1/8 reverse (with the palm under lateral pitch). See for you a move to 1/8 lateral out is 1/2 of an inch, a lot. There is a lot less holding power in this lateral out position for you.
You would have to go near 0 forward/reverse to regain your holding power. But frankly it is just too much of a move for you.
For tenpinitis and Can you Rev 1/8 lateral out is there perfect midpoint. They can move with comfort about 1/4 inch around this perfect anatomical pitch to change ball roll.
You on the other hand will probably never be able to make 1/8 lateral out work.
You start at 3/8 lateral under and can probably move 1/4 inch also around this point to tweak ball roll.
PS. If your complaint to your ball driller was that you were hanging, many ball drillers add lateral out pitch to speed the release(you are now too fast). A better solution is stay near where you were laterally and improve bevel.
Jerry Weller,
I hate to discuss forward reverse pitches without knowing spans. They mean nothing. What is your total span and how are your fingers pitched forward/reverse? Then we can have a relevant discussion.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: alex on June 07, 2003, 12:44:19 PM
Post by: Jerry Weller on June 07, 2003, 05:10:42 PM
I have bad arthritis in my fingers that limits their flexibility - I use 1 " away in the middle finger and 3/4" away in the ring finger. My span is 4 3/8ths" ring, 4 1/2" to middle. (Normal fingertip grip - not relaxed)
My first balls were drilled by a one size, one drill fits all kind of guy in St. Louis. He'd been in business a long time so I assumed he knew what he was doing when he fit me. After attending a bowling camp I found out why my fingers hurt me after I bowled. Bill Majella (may he rest in peace) was smart enough to see that the backs of my fingers were rubbing the back of my finger holes and tell me that I needed to change my equipment. Zero finger pitch may work well for most folks, but not for me. My nails were getting bruised after bowling and my fingers hurt for days.
Over the next 2 years I added more and more away in the fingers, but nobody was really giving me as much as I needed till one day I asked one of my friends who had just hung up his own pro shop shingle to let me play with his fitting ball. He was good enough to humor me and drill my equipment the way I wanted and that solved that problem.
Later on an online friend who has read Bill Taylor's book told me about the coke can test and that led to me pitching the thumb away from the palm. I noticed that it was easier to stay behind the ball with that drilling. I have never had any problems turning the ball.
The latest experiment came as a result of reading Taylor's article in BTM that said that most drillers give people too much reverse. I've always had problems with dropping shots behind the line throughout my brief adult bowling career unless the ball was super snug with tape. In the past I've had all manner of thumb pitch from zero to 3/8" reverse.
Hearing that forward pitch made it easier to hold on to the ball I went whole hog and embraced the "make it fail" philosophy. I played with the fitting ball and gave myself as much forward pitch as I could where I still could get out of the ball reasonably comfortably. After playing around I elected to put in a full 1/2" of forward pitch in my thumb.
Despite predictions that I wouldn't be able to get out of the ball, would lose revs, etc. I have been bowling well. Occasionally the ball DOES hang on my thumb, so my next experiment with the forward pitch will be 1/4" forward to see if that makes things even better. But for now it's nice not to be dropping shots all the time and I'm shooting some very strong scores.
Post by: ambi1 on June 09, 2003, 01:01:09 AM
Regards
--------------------
DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 09, 2003, 01:32:03 PM
Icehouse would be better!
Jerry,
I think we had discussed this and we had.
The dramatic reverse pitch, in the fingers requires more forward in the thumb.
Your one inch reverse in the fingers is making it like your span is much shorter.
Let's say almost 1/2 shorter in feel than the charts in my opinion.
At least 1/4 of less reverse more forward must be added to the tables to account for this alone!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS note I had discussed finger reverse and the coordinated reduction in reverse of the thumb abit above but it could have gotten missed in the pure volume of material.
Post by: Buzzhead on June 09, 2003, 10:24:50 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 15, 2003, 09:08:49 AM
33 degree gripping angle?
I have not seen you explain that term before?
Please proceed.
Thanks,
Luckylefty
Post by: T-GOD on June 15, 2003, 10:39:47 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 15, 2003, 02:11:39 PM
The proshop that I frequent(I drill at home ) has in the past few months received a
span measuring and oval angle measurement ball from ?? Innovative.
This ball both measure spans and then has an oval shaped hole(adjustable with springloaded front and back surfaces. This hole also twists and allows one to see the orientation of their oval. Mine is 48 degrees off the thumb bridge centerline.
I just received a ball from Da Lefty that I estimate would have been oriented to at least a 55 degree angle!
I think people differ on this. Just as they do on their lateral pitches and the coke bottle test.
T- Guru I have noticed a difference in Forward Reverse Thumb pitches based on cup versus not cupped. Those that cup for a given span tend to be able to have more reverse and still be able to hold. Those that have a straighter wrist at release seem for the same span to often have less reverse or they will drop.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: T-GOD on June 15, 2003, 05:55:09 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 16, 2003, 07:33:38 AM
The thing I am finding is that the more dramatically one varies from the tables say forward more than 1/8 from tables(assuming no reverse in fingers), the more front of thumbhole bevel is needed for a given individual(ie that person could have a ball with proper or table reverse with less bevel).
Lately many friends have gone to more forward(on their own), used custom thumbs that are left the same. And then come up to me and complained of bruises or cuts under base of thumb. The problem has been fixed quickly with a little front bevel as determined by the ring finger test. Back to butter.
Also noted is that many of these guys going to forward are bowling with less wrist cup. Maybe getting slightly fewer revs also.
As a note side bevel per individual seems to vary by how much one is off from the perfect anatomical position (lateral pitch). Middle finger test will determine proper amount.
In other words going forward but leaving lateral the same often only requires an increase in front of thumb bevel but not side of thumb bevel.
Of course I also notice that more lateral unders seem to work with a greater amount of reverse in relation to if the same individual uses less lateral under.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS also amount of bevel is needed is often determined by the amount of skin in between the thumb and index finger intersection. The more skin the more bevel needed the less skin the less bevel needed. Credit Joe Moore AMF Williamsburg VA.
Post by: B Pirnie on June 16, 2003, 10:41:41 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 17, 2003, 07:41:01 AM
My perfect anatomical fit is near yours.
About 3/8 lateral under you being 1/2.
Ring finger point eh!
Bill Taylor anticipated that people would need to adjust roll and talks about adjustments of up to 1/4 inch. I actually have been using 1/8 lateral under and 1/16 lateral under lately also to cut down on my SHARP backend!
This adjustment for me is 1/4 to 5/16.
The 1/16 lateral under seems to start to want to put pressure on the corner of my thumbnail too. A little extra side bevel seems to help. (Do not increase front bevel!)
When Mo Pinel was here he was doing a lot with tilt and rotation by adjusting finger pitches. Often for more tilt more forward with middle finger less forward with ring. For less tilt the opposite. (Note I know you said rotation).
Also slightly straightening lateral pitches can aid in straightening roll.
ie if your middle finger is 3/8 lateral reduce it to 5/16 or 1/4 if no wear on sides this can help. If ring is 3/8 move to 7/16. This definetely straightens roll some.
To summarize if it were me. At 0 lateral thumb I would first add some side bevel.
If this doesn't work with regard to thumb nail chipping I would go back to 1/8 under palm lateral. If ball now turns too much add a touch of reverse to middle finger. Also holes on PAP can stabilize ball too.
With my amount of rotation(a lot like you) and softer speed I bowl with a lot of kicked out cgs and holes on pap. Note I sometimes angle then away from grip center to control midlane but still keep some pop on ball.
I've done this with a smash/r lately and loving it! Even but with a little more POP than my Smooth sledgehammer. Weighthole straight in!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS let us know how any of this works, good luck!
Post by: B Pirnie on June 19, 2003, 09:52:40 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 20, 2003, 08:53:37 AM
I just read your profile!
Umm another thing guys are doing especially tour type guys like you is reverse in the fingers and a corresponding move slightly forward in the thumb to reduce the hard transition from oil to dry on the tour type shots.
I saw the move you just made and it looks good. I'm surprised you use 1/4 reverse successfully at each lateral pitch. I tend to use my most reverse at my natural anatomical UNDER pitch and I have to go forward from the Bill Taylor tables as I go to less lateral under.
In other words where you are at anatomical perfect 1/2 under and 1/4 reverse, when you go to 1/4 under you stay at 1/4 reverse.
Me my natural under of 3/8 would be say 3/16 reverse at 1/16 under I am 1/16 reverse or it is drop city!
I'm curious about holding power as you move lateral out from anatomically perfect.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: B Pirnie on June 21, 2003, 12:05:08 AM
As for the pitches the 1/4 reverse is a little much, but I knew 1/2 under and 1/4 reverse caused no thumb problem. So I went with the 1/4 x 1/4 to make sure the nail healed. So far so good almost completely healed. I have some tape deep in the thumb to make the feel ok. I think I will try 1/4 under by 1/8 reverse when the crack is gone and see how that works.
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 21, 2003, 12:31:39 AM
Another maybe final solution is 1/8 under and 1/16 reverse to get that roll you need.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: grunt on December 02, 2004, 10:51:08 PM
Post by: Re-Evolution on February 12, 2005, 11:43:54 PM
--------------------
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Post by: JohnP on February 13, 2005, 06:35:43 PM
Post by: gbushman on May 25, 2005, 11:33:20 AM
--------------------
TOO many IDIOTS, so LITTLE time.
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 25, 2005, 05:51:49 PM
I Just wanted to verify that.
REgards,
Luckylefty