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Author Topic: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out  (Read 3134 times)

LuckyLefty

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Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« on: December 05, 2003, 06:13:17 PM »
Just did a review on a pin out ball(Fuze Detonator), this is only the second pin out ball that has really worked for me!

You see I've added a new twist I saw a friend have on a pin out ball(about 3.5 to 4 inch pin out).  He put the cg down.  This seemed to still give the early read a lefty needs but also gives significant backend.  How applicable this type of drilling is to the right I don't know.

However, on previous pin outs that I drilled with the cg equal in the north south direction to the grip center I always had a tendancy to either get too far down lane OR have just plane too much backend and not really controllable.

Another interesting observation is that by putting the cg down about 1/2 t 3/4 of an inch below the grip center line for the same pin out ball(say 4 inches) and the same pin to pap distance the pin ends up much closer to the ring finger(laterally)say a 3 3/4 pin to pap.  If drilled with the standard cg = grip center the 3 3/4 pin to pap has the pin way over from the ring finger and if one described it as a degree drilling it is at least 105!

Versus the cg down for the same pin out(4 inches) and same pin to pap and also cg down 3/4 of an inch and set up about 3/4 laterally off grip center looks almost like a stack drilling and is closer to 90 degrees for the pap to pin, pin to cg angle!
 
Previously  because on the left I always liked to see the ball revving early(due to usual head oil and midlane oil) I typically used balls of pin out no more than 2 inches!  This worked great when particles first came out and I saw a lot of 32 35 and 38 foot oil patterns.  With the longer amount of dry boards at the end of the lane the shorter pin out would rev up and then have plenty of time to rev in the heads and midlane and then slurve smoothly to the pocket either flush or light.

All of a sudden about a year after particles came out it all of a sudden seemed that the patterns were longer and wetter in the midlanes and these shorter pin outs still revved but really had trouble getting up high enough in the pocket to carry.  Ringing 7s for me a lot!!!!!

A great example I have was of a 1 3/4 inch pin out Pro Zone Violet.  This ball in the days of the 32 and 35 foot shot was king!!!  It owned the pocket and carried a ton of them.  With this ball I had over 20 250 plus games and all of them had only leaves of ringing 7 pins!  I was sure I was going to have several 300s with it but it would go light pocket climber, then light pocket climber, light pocket climber, light pocket climber then flush ring!!!!

It owned carry when light but when flush it would leave the inevitable ring!
I finally had to cut myself from it's addicting allure of owning the pocket but NEVER clearing all 12!  I traded to Shaggy.  Now he has emailed me back switched the ball to righty and has the same thing to report.  The pocket is owned, light carry is absolute, solid carry is a wild card!

All of a sudden I try the drilling above either label look or stacked regardless over 3 inch pin out and cg down and all of a sudden almost all the same ownership of the pocket with corner pins being chopped out at the knees time after time!  Can you say chop block!  Karate chop to the knees, your on the ground mother!  Chop blocks are illegal in football but not in bowling!
Die you miserable 7 pin! DIE!!!  Your knees are gone!

Previous attempts at pin out drillings with cg on the grip center line led to lack of control and also a lot of ringers as the ball would get down behind the proper breakpoint a lot!

Do I think this idea really applies to right side as much, probably not.
I see many a right with pin outs and fingerweight setups with the cg above the grip center having no problems once a little of the oil clears.  However it might on a heavy oiled sport condition in the heads!

Anyway this might be an idea that might help someone on today's longer oil conditions.

REgards,

Luckylefty
Did the same thing on a Reaction Roll but stacked and am experiencing a similar type flight pattern, but earlier, this ball can also bring it from the inside and get high enough in the pocket to the hack attack on the 7 pins knees. Ball just starts earlier and has serious midlane!
Ewwwww, that hurts!!!  Die 7 pin, DIE!!!!


Edited on 12/6/2003 10:20 AM
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

10pin2002

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2003, 09:24:44 PM »
Does it apply to rightys?  I think so.  I also have a Hyde, the center of gravity kicked below the center on a ball 4" pin out.  Pin is 1" in the 2:00 direction of the ring finger.  Good early roll and a controllable backend that seems to have a knack for kicking out 10 pins!  However if I have to amp the ballspeed up, it'll take away from the back end too much and I'll be in 10 pin hell.  And I don't think it's drilled strong enough to go deep inside.  I've done that with mixed results.  Seems to like anywhere from straight down 8 to standing on 30 throwing over 15.  More aggressive ball might be able to go deep, though.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2003, 09:53:00 PM »
LuckyLefty, just curious, but did your ball end up with thumb weight?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2003, 12:12:26 AM »
Did not measure, because ball had a starting top of 3 ounces and if cg is put within one inch of grip center it typically only creates imbalance under 1 ounce.

This cg was put down a little less than 3/4 of an inch below the grip center line.(Fuze Detonator, no weighthole, thus ending thumb weight)

Also on the stacked ball(REaction Roll) since I DID need to take out sideweight hole was place on a line from the grip center thru the cg shifted down and out on the VAL.

Putting a hole in this manner always gets thumb finger weight back near 0.  Yet the ball will still rev slightly faster in the heads based on the core down position.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS two balls one with thumb weight one probably without both revving sooner.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2003, 12:17:02 AM »
Oh, a little elaboration regarding this setup for righties.

1. I don't care if it works, hahahahhahahaahah!
2. But if I did I could see it working on a fresh type of condition.

However since I hear a lot of my friends complaining about lack of head oil on the right, I see very often the righty just does the common things of fingerweight(to slide thru the heads) and then pin out and higher starting top weights if he wants greater recovery in the back!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2003, 09:23:16 AM »
Well,

Brian all I did was take my predetermined pin position I wanted.  In this case 3 3/4 pin to pap and move down keeping cg within one inch of grip center both positive and down.  Top weight starting was 3.

Final specs were about 3 3/4 X 4 1/2 X 1/2 inch down.  

I do think it is sort of a lefty thing and will only work if your other label drillings are taking you too deep in to the breakpoint.  If they are(mine often are this will work).  

For me this cg down move turns a 10:30 label (lefty) into a 11:30 label.

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

snakes

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2003, 09:40:37 AM »
LL,

This is what I too have noticed.  I have a Pro Purple(2.5x5) with the cg just up from the thumb, a Nugget 4x3 with the cg under midline. Both roll on the early side and have great midlane read and finish.

I also have a pearl bomb(5x4) with the cg on my midline and a Pink Raspberry(5.5x4)1 inch pin.  The cg is slightly above my midline.   My pinout pearl bomb can get squirty on me. The Pink pin in does a little bit.

I tried an experiment.  I bought a pearl cherry bomb from Drillwizard, and it was 4x2.  Cg below the midline.  It was way to burny.(lack of a better word)

I redrilled it with the pin above my bridge and the cg out, just to the left of my ring.  It is so scoot city. It does not want to finish.  It rolls good, but does not finish.  Sounds like we run into the same kinds of things.  Damn Lefties anyhow.

Edited on 12/8/2003 10:43 AM

johns811

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2003, 11:26:10 AM »
Seems kind of odd. Top weight is normal and pin isn't bad either?? Are you sure it is only 4" or is that what the box says?

quote:
Hey Lefty , i am a righty , i have a Pirahna Retro , 4 inch pin and 3 1/4 Oz. top ... wanna drill it for me ? No one around my Town does .....If i cant get it drilled ill have to sell or trade it ....

jcliffm@hotmail.com

Edited on 12/9/2003 12:15 PM

Edited on 12/9/2003 12:16 PM

gbushman

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2004, 01:24:46 AM »
TTT
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TOO many IDIOTS, so LITTLE time.

gbushman

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Re: Musings on Pin in vs Pin out
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2004, 01:32:39 AM »
NO, just LOST all of the OTHER replies.
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TOO many IDIOTS, so LITTLE time.