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Author Topic: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?  (Read 4236 times)

CoorZero

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Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« on: October 16, 2016, 07:33:37 PM »
My general layout for heavy oil asymmetrical balls has almost always included a motion hole (think P3). But over the last year or so I've made an effort to become better informed about stuff like this. From what I understand now this might not be the best idea.

Are there any good reasons to include one on my Jackal LE? With the recent improvements I've made I feel like I'm in a good place to try something a bit different. I'm around 350-375 for revs with a medium track. Fairly average tilt and 16 mph on the monitor with the sensors down the lane.

I don't think I will miss it, and it doesn't sound like going without one will make it "too weak," but I do want to cover my bases before getting something like the LE punched up because I'm not going to buy one at the prices they're selling for around the web.

 

spmcgivern

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 08:07:37 AM »
P3 and Motion Hole are not the same thing.  (Motion Holes are typically not suggested for asymmetricals)

Second thing, I will always recommend a bowler try a ball before adding any balance holes.  Even in today's hi-tech environment, we can't predict exactly what a ball will do once drilled. 

If you like using the Dual Angle method, then go through the steps and layout your ball to meet your needs.  Then, throw the ball to determine if you need a balance hole or not.  (I would suggest more than 1 day of bowling, sometimes we have varying releases so trying on different days will confirm if what you saw the first time is correct.)

If you decide you want to tweak the reaction with a balance hole, then go about that process.

Just make sure you set the ball up properly to ensure you can maximize the effects of a balance hole.  I have even had balls be illegal (static weight) before adding a balance hole.  If it is, then don't use the ball during competition, practice only.  If you like the reaction, then a P2 hole will neither add or subtract significant changes in reaction.  Adding a P2 in this instance will bring the ball back to specs.

CoorZero

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 11:55:40 AM »
P3 and Motion Hole are not the same thing.  (Motion Holes are typically not suggested for asymmetricals)

Didn't mean to reference Pinel's MOtion hole system, I'm not familiar with that at all. Was just a mixup involving terms the way I think about them. :-[

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/bowling-ball-balance-hole-fundamentals/

This article seems pretty good although they only used symmetrical balls as examples. That's kind of why I'm thinking one isn't needed on an asymmetrical ball, unless it's to make it legal of course. Does the law of diminishing returns come into play here? The way I understand it the concept of the gradient line system is to make a ball behave more asymmetrically/stronger. If that's the case then using one on an already strong and asymmetrical ball might not do much, or maybe there are no diminishing returns and it just stacks...

Layouts, ugh. My brain hurts from thinking around in circles.

spmcgivern

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 01:01:57 PM »
One thing I have experienced in the past is my pro shop has not drilled asymmetricals properly for me.  For those who use the Dual Angle method, the Pin-PAP distance guidelines are different for asymmetricals than they are for symmetricals.  How much different is up for debate in my head.

With that being said, I do believe the effect of a balance hole on a drilled ball can be significant.  In fact, the originally drilled ball can be drastically different than what you want, but with the addition of a balance hole (and surface changes) you can come up with something better than expected. 

Here is a brief description of the Balance Hole system as described by Mo Pinel:

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/4/4a/Gradient_Line_Hand_Out.pdf

scotts33

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 08:37:40 PM »
I'll add this as I sifted this information out of Mo and his disciples.  Typically MOtion hole layouts work best for bowlers with lower tilt and P3 for bowlers with higher tilt.  I believe this should be factored in when you are considering MOtion hole or P3.  I agree with spmcgivern I would not use a MOtion hole on an asymmetrical and some symmetrical's ie. Motiv Sigma weight blocks though symmetrical did not lend themselves well to MOtion holes as you could hit a void in the weight block.  There are better weight blocks to use ie. the Yeti's which are lower RG balls come to mind that work well with MOiton holes.
Scott

JohnP

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 09:40:32 AM »
Remember, when you add the balance hole the ball will be asymmetrical, all balls are after drilling.  The difference is that the psa for a ball with an asymmetric core will be located very near the mass bias mark.  For a ball with a symmetric core the psa will be located near the thumb hole, best estimate without a Determinator is 1/2" to the negative side of the grip centerline and 6 3/4" from the pin.  After you have the psa location determined the gradient line can be used, but you won't be able to use the P4 position because it will be too close to the thumb hole.  And a P3 hole may require pitching the balance hole away from the thumb hole to avoid intersection.   --  JohnP

spmcgivern

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Re: Jackal LE... Motion Hole?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 10:11:19 AM »
The ball in question is asymmetric.  If the PSA is located far enough away from the thumb hole you can add a P4 hole, though pitching will most likely be required to prevent intersection with the thumb hole.

Just to clarify, any symmetrical core with holes drilled into it will be asymmetrical.  A balance hole isn't required to make the ball asymmetrical.